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Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by xbmcuser on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @02:01AM (#14642869)
It feels weird when ever I read stuff where China is doing things to improve or protect the environment where as US is doing the opposite. Like we are living in a mirror world.
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by avar on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @05:02AM (#14643507)
How is the US not improving as well? Renewable energy usage went up from ~9% to ~13% from 2002 to 2013[1]. The growth in photovoltaics continues[2]. The portion of electric cars as part of the fleet is going up[3] etc.

It is true that the US could be doing better, but it's not doing the opposite of what China is doing when it comes to energy & environmental improvements.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_the_United...

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_photovoltaics

3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country

Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by mattmanser on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @05:24AM (#14643607)
Trump just pulled out of the Paris climate accord. It was in the news for days?
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by soundwave106 on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @11:20AM (#14646187)
Trump may make the national optics look bad, but that doesn't change the optics completely at the state and city level.

For instance, on the renewable energy angle, according to the American Wind Energy Organization, five states now regularly generate 20%+ of their energy from wind. (http://www.awea.org/MediaCenter/pressrelease.aspx?ItemNumber...) That number would've been unthinkable 10 years ago.

(Note that the windy states tend to be Republican voting rural mid-west ones. That doesn't mean that Trump isn't going to stop mocking wind energy (as he just recently did). Rather, it does mean there is bipartisan support in these states for wind energy, and that Trump's negative comments on wind in Iowa didn't go down very well with Iowans and Iowa politicians from both sides of the aisle -- https://apnews.com/a2b500b82d5a44eeb9759ca31d0b4a33)

Having a national leader that seems hostile to anything environmental certainly doesn't help matters, but it's not all doom and gloom.

Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by Shivetya on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @07:36AM (#14644387)
A fake treaty based on hype and slogans. whose temperature goals when overlaid with existing models shows no change. a fake treaty which allows each nation to set their own goals, change them at will, and no fines or similar mechanisms to insure compliance? A treaty which then veered off into rules on gender equity, biodiversity, disabled people, migrants, and a just transition of work forces.

as in, it was propaganda act by politicians who used ignorance of what it stood for so you would think they were doing something about it when they were doing absolutely nothing. it had no power of enforcement because they could not even come to an agreement of who would be allowed to enforce it. when you let the fox set the rules the chickens outcome does not change.

it was worse than no treaty. with no treaty people can be brought back to the table and iron out one that has limits that apply equally to all nations with an agreed to enforcement. (per capita limits are the means some countries used to skirt any impact they have on the world)

Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by angersock on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @01:49PM (#14647560)
Luckily for us and the environment, that's more a talking point than a policy point.
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by AlgorithmicTime on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @06:47AM (#14644049)
Until that actually causes the US to stop increasing the proportion of renewable energy, I'm skeptical it's an issue.
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by oh_sigh on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @01:56PM (#14647625)
I'm curious if you believe there is any room for people who care about the environment, but thought the Paris agreement was a waste of money and resources?
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by rf15 on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @06:05AM (#14643785)
> ~9% to ~13% from 2002 to 2013[1]

that's 4% in 11 years, basically flatlining compared to other countries.

Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by dagw on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @09:20AM (#14645091)
that's 4% in 11 years

No, it's 45% growth in 11 years. It's 4 percentage points, but that is something different.

Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by sigi45 on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @03:27PM (#14648500)
yeah still a joke :)
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by rf15 on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @02:40PM (#14648027)
point taken
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by pc86 on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @09:20AM (#14645086)
The United States' energy use per capita[0] is the largest in the world. How does the total energy consumption of renewables v. non-renewables compare?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption#/medi...

Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by mikeash on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @10:09AM (#14645499)
Nitpick: the US is #3, behind Iceland and Canada. Iceland is an incredible outlier, with a figure well over two times higher than Canada, I assume because aluminum production is such a huge part of the economy due to cheap geothermal and hydroelectric power.
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by avar on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @10:52AM (#14645903)
The US is actually #9 behind Iceland, Qatar, Trinidad and Tobago, Kuwait, Brunei, Luxembourg, UAE and Canada[1]. Just sort that table by kgoe/a. You're right about why Iceland is so high, see [2].

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_energy_co...

2. https://askjaenergy.com/2014/11/17/iceland-is-the-world-larg...

Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by mikeash on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @03:13PM (#14648345)
That's where I looked too, but I sorted by the 2014 column which seems to be missing values for some of those countries. Confusing!
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by KekDemaga on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @09:03AM (#14644958)
I can presume that you personally only use renewables?
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by rf15 on Thursday June 29, 2017 @03:11AM (#14661377)
Fair criticism. On the other hand, if we're going down this road of argumentation: I am renewable.
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @02:51AM (#14643005)
I moved from china (Beijing) to the USA (LA) for the much cleaner air. Ya, parallel universe for sure, it's like comparing mordor to the shire, where the former is freaking out over its horrible pollution problem while the latter doesn't notice anything wrong.
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by FullMtlAlcoholc on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @04:25AM (#14643377)
People in LA, and Californians in general do care about pollution. After all, it is one of the birthplaces of the modern environmental movement in the US.

Despite its urban sprawl, LA has one of the lowest emissions per capita in the US, lower than nyc even. The pollution tends to accumulate due to it's geography, being that the city is in a basin instead of dispersing. Tear down the Santa Monica and San Gabriel mountains, and the air quality would be greatly improved.

Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by seanmcdirmid on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @01:03PM (#14647134)
I was being a bit sarcastic, but ya, you are completely right. My point really was that the US isn't falling behind, China just has much larger problems to deal with ATM and so they are beginning to take the environment seriously.

Both LA and Beijing have similar topological bowl and inversion problems. Tear down the western and northern hills in Beijing, and the air quality would also be greatly improved.

Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by sigi45 on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @03:33PM (#14648573)
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday June 28, 2017 @11:36AM (#14655011)
Carbon dioxide doesn't mean shit when the current PM2.5 AQI outside is 200 or 300+. You are talking about a global problem, I'm referring to the local one that will give you lung cancer and not just cause sea levels to rise.
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by nerdponx on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @08:49AM (#14644863)
And I suspect that similar reasons of geography lead to New Yorkers not caring about pollution as much as they should. From what little I know about weather, all of the pollution in New York City gets blown right out into the Atlantic
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by NikolaeVarius on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @09:33AM (#14645200)
Except NY/NYC has extremely low greenhouse gas production per capita. I am aware this is not equivalent to all pollution, but its asinine to claim that New Yorkers don't care.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_carbon_...

Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by richdougherty on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @03:13AM (#14643105)
It's weird… like how really sick people care more about medical treatment than moderately sick people. ;)
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by pulse7 on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @03:28AM (#14643181)
China has a long way to go and when it will come there it will have an impact on costs...
Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by tim333 on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @06:44AM (#14644029)
Renewables keep dropping in price. By the time it comes it may not cost that much.

I was in Beijing in 1983 and the air was clean and everyone rode bicycles with almost zero cars. They could do that although it wouldn't fix the steel plants...

Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by tonyedgecombe on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @02:27AM (#14642940)
America will catch on eventually.
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Re:A shift in China to less toxic coatings for containers in... by batushka on Tuesday June 27, 2017 @08:34AM (#14644782)
Hold on buddy, just 8 yrs left