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Re:iPad Pro by ChuckMcM on Monday June 05, 2017 @03:38PM (#14490769)
It is interesting to watch two companies converging on to the same product space, I suggested to Panos that my choice between updating an iPad or getting a new Surface would be whether or not they include LTE connectivity in the Surface.

The thing Microsoft still doesn't seem to internalize is that 'wifi only' is a disqualifying feature for many people they would like to convert.

Re:iPad Pro by wamatt on Monday June 05, 2017 @05:20PM (#14492195)
In the past I've been adamant on buying the LTE+Wifi iPads (because more options right?). In hindsight however, the cellular feature was barely used.

Have you considered an LTE mobile hotspot? It can be left charged (but off) in your laptop bag for days/weeks and only used for travel or as needed. I found it to be super useful and not much hassle at all. Also multiple devices can connect rather simply.

Lastly, a benefit of this sort of decoupling, is it allows for using a different network carrier to the mobile phone, thus effectively increasing one's LTE coverage.

Re:iPad Pro by ChuckMcM on Monday June 05, 2017 @05:55PM (#14492548)
I try a lot of stuff. I'm on my fourth iPad, second Surface Pro, my third Macbook Pro, my fourth ThinkPad. I have also had a Newton, Palm Pilot (various), Handspring, Nook (ebook), and Android tablets (most interesting being a 13" one from Lenovo with a built in projector)

I use the Verizon LTE network on my iPad pro all the time. When I'm on the train, when I'm travelling hither and yon. I don't browse/read/search on my phone (which I use for actually calling and texting people). Not saying that I represent a typical consumer but I certainly represent at least a cohort of 1 consumers :-).

I had a MiFi for a while (company purchased), but found it consistently had lower performance then the native networking of my iPad and it was easy to lose if I wasn't paying attention. Twice I encountered times when it wasn't charged when I needed it. On analyzing it overall I found that because it wasn't forced to be charged when I charged my laptop/tablet, it suffered from sometimes being missed when it needed to be charged. That the radio is by definition charged when the iPad is charged avoids that failure mode for me.

When travelling with my SPro4 I would sometimes 'hot spot' it to my tablet. Awkward but it works. In the inversion that I still marvel about the software availability on the iPad has always been better than the availability of software on the SPro4.

The SPro4 has a better (to my taste) drawing experience than the iPad Pro does. And both the iPad Pro and SPro4 are way better than previous stylus attempts on capacitive screens.

The iPad has a much better 'tablet only' experience for me, and a much worse 'docked' experience. SPro4 with a Surface Dock and a couple of UHD monitors is literally indistinguishable from the NUC i7 box I use as a desktop. There is nothing (yet) that I can attach to my iPad Pro to make it work like a Macbook Pro (I know I know, different OS, processor etc.)

As a result I create more in general on my SPro4, consume more on my iPad Pro. I travel with my iPad in my hand and my SPro in my backpack.

Clearly I have been unable to leave one behind and just use the other so there is some more convergence to go :-)

Re:iPad Pro by sqldba on Monday June 05, 2017 @11:10PM (#14494436)
What are your LTE costs per GB? It hasn't caught on in Australia; you pay about $30AUD a month for about 5GB of total data traffic. If you have 5 devices you usually can't share it either so you either have to swap a lot of SIMs or that's $150 a month one for each.
Re:iPad Pro by cstejerean on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @12:42AM (#14494789)
In the US pretty much all carriers have moved to shared data plans where you can get a pool of data to share between all devices on the plan, which can include other family members.
Re:iPad Pro by jeena on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @02:29AM (#14495197)
I'm in Sweden and here you can pay $63/month to get a flatrate for calling/smm/mms/surfing + 100GB in EU/ESS, Malaysia and Thailand, and you can get a extra SIM card if you need one for another device.

But for me my company pays that anyway so I can get a new phone every year with basically free surfing in the whole EU, which is really nice.

Re:iPad Pro by kartickv on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @03:49AM (#14495494)
It's not just the cost, but also the hassle of getting SIM cards, submitting documentation to get each (in India), paying multiple bills, tracking which plan you're on for each SIM card, and so on.
Re:iPad Pro by JustFYI on Monday June 05, 2017 @08:04PM (#14493528)
Wow, makes me think the problem is not your gadgets. PEBKAC.
Re:iPad Pro by freshyill on Monday June 05, 2017 @11:17PM (#14494461)
I don't understand why people don't just tether to their phones. It just works, and you don't pay any extra for another device on your account. Biggest downside I can see would be draining your phone's battery a bit.
Re:iPad Pro by kartickv on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @03:52AM (#14495511)
I did that once, and I wished that I could plug my phone in to my iPad to charge it. That didn't work because the iPad uses Apple's proprietary Lightning connector rather than the standard USB-C. If my iPad had USB-C, I could have plugged my Google Pixel into it with the USB-C to USB-C cable Google gave me.

This is another limitation of the iPad — like a computer, but with arbitrary limitations like non-standard ports.

Re:iPad Pro by mmargerum on Wednesday June 07, 2017 @08:11AM (#14505596)
The problem for me is it doesn't just work. Inexplicably , my iPad jut will not connect to my phone. Usually when I need it most.
Re:iPad Pro by dmix on Monday June 05, 2017 @05:48PM (#14492471)
It still must be nice to be able to pull out your tablet-esque tablet and be connected to the internet anywhere you go. Especially as CAT-6 LTE is being rolled out in my city (Toronto) with comparable speeds as my home interest in recent years.

This will definitely become a must-have feature in future machines for me. I would no longer have to worry whether or not my local coffeeshop's internet is running slow or takes 5 minutes to properly connect to some random public wifi at a new place.

Public WIFI is prevelant but still very hit/miss. A consitent fast LTE connection would be quite the luxury.

It'd also totally kill SMS and telephone plans which I'm looking forward to the most. Encrypted E2E crypto for both voice/text will be a great incentive for this too.

Re:iPad Pro by killjoywashere on Monday June 05, 2017 @05:55PM (#14492549)
The LTE is faster because your ISP is a douche. It is insane to ever, ever think transmission over airwaves can rival same-day wired capacity. They're just assholes.
Re:iPad Pro by snewk on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @01:09AM (#14494883)
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here
Re:iPad Pro by JohnTHaller on Monday June 05, 2017 @07:45PM (#14493396)
Use your mobile phone as a hotspot. In the US, T-Mobile includes 10GB of hotspot in the unlimited mobile plans, so it was a no-brainer for me to go that route.
Re:iPad Pro by isaacn on Monday June 05, 2017 @06:44PM (#14492958)
The new Surface Pro 5 has a LTE option: https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/23/15674198/microsoft-surfac... - So, are you getting the new Surface Pro 5?
Re:iPad Pro by ChuckMcM on Monday June 05, 2017 @06:58PM (#14493071)
When it becomes available I do not doubt that I will get one :-) Best estimates though are 'fall'. And as the article states, there is still a lot of questions around it: "Microsoft isn’t revealing exact pricing or a release date, or even what processor will power the Surface Pro with LTE. It's possible that Microsoft could opt for an ARM-powered Surface. LTE versions should be available later this year."
Re:iPad Pro by Roritharr on Monday June 05, 2017 @06:35PM (#14492888)
Can you tell Panos the next time you see him that he should have included Thunderbolt 3 in the Surface Series?

That decision alone made them not viable to buy for our company. We rely heavily on Thunderbolt 3 Docks in our new offices that work for Windows and Mac. No such thing possible with the Surface Products.

It's such a game-changer to be able to just plug in your device wherever there is a free spot and have a full featured 2x 4k + Gbit Ethernet + Charging Workplace via one cable.

Re:iPad Pro by ChuckMcM on Monday June 05, 2017 @06:48PM (#14492990)
Which dock do you use?

I suspect that the choice of whether or not to include Thunderbolt 3 is constrained by the available chip sets from Intel rather than a design intent from Microsoft. Looks like Intel is going to make that an option however (https://liliputing.com/2017/05/intel-thunderbolt-3-will-inte...) so I would not doubt to see it brought out on laptops that use chip sets that incorporate it.

Re:iPad Pro by Roritharr on Monday June 05, 2017 @06:53PM (#14493032)
We got a bunch from the first batch of Caldigits Thunderbolt Station 3.

We're eyeing the ones from OWC/Elgato/Belkin too, but they are simply not available until later this month.

I wouldn't be so sure regarding the design constraints, the Dell XPS 13 has very similar parts to the Surface Pro, but has been offering the Thunderbolt Port ever since Skylake.

Re:iPad Pro by ChuckMcM on Monday June 05, 2017 @07:16PM (#14493181)
Thanks, no overheating?

The XPS 13 is a nice laptop, it isn't "all in the display" though, which when you talk about volume and battery time it counts. Currently from what I can see from teardowns (https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft+Surface+Pro+4+Tear...) there isn't enough space for the current Intel discrete solution (but there is in the XPS 13 and there would have been in the Surface Book if they put it in the keyboard half.)

Re:iPad Pro by Roritharr on Monday June 05, 2017 @07:26PM (#14493253)
We haven't experienced any overheating yet, but they get quite warm.

You are probably right now when I look at the teardowns. It makes one wonder what the custom Surface Docks use to push all that I/O out. The ASUS Transformer 3 Pro T303UA somehow managed to cram it in though.

Re:iPad Pro by zyx321 on Monday June 05, 2017 @08:02PM (#14493516)
Everyone and their dog thinks they can design a better Surface than Microsoft. Luckily, Microsoft allows it. Have you looked into the new Eve V?
Re:iPad Pro by Roritharr on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @01:43AM (#14495031)
Yup, looks good although the processor selection is questionable performance-wise, sadly its not available.
Re:iPad Pro by zyx321 on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @10:08AM (#14497298)
Somewhat questionable maybe, but they had a number of polls among their Kickstarter backers which came out in favor of "more battery life" over "more power" or "thinner/lighter"
Re:iPad Pro by kartickv on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @03:57AM (#14495532)
Good point — though I don't have any Thunderbolt 3 devices or docks, the Surface is limited by not having a Thunderbolt 3 port, because I may buy a device later, perhaps the LG Ultrafine 5k monitor.

We need more compatibility, not less.

Re:iPad Pro by jrs95 on Monday June 05, 2017 @03:39PM (#14490794)
the new surface pro is going to have LTE
Re:iPad Pro by ChuckMcM on Monday June 05, 2017 @03:59PM (#14491115)
Interesting, it wasn't in the coverage I read on the announcement in May but I see on the web site they have added : "We wanted to ensure Surface Pro was a transformative device – so we also have added LTE Advanced, available in units shipping later this year." Makes me wonder how much later, later is?

Thanks for pointing that out!

Re:iPad Pro by amygdyl on Monday June 05, 2017 @11:25PM (#14494511)
Likewise thank you for your information!

Now I have a dilemma: I'm forced to retire my SP2 and the SP5 is any day going to be debited unless I cancel.

This hiatus looks like just how I'm going to be reviewing the new HP Spectre tablet instead. I was seriously intrigued, especially by the 3000 * 2000 display. I guess I will find out soon enough. Something tells me that I have room for disappointment plenty here, tho'...

Re:iPad Pro by BatFastard on Monday June 05, 2017 @03:55PM (#14491056)
Excellent, seems like ALL new devices should have that built in as an option. Along with SMS and Voice!
Re:iPad Pro by seanp2k2 on Monday June 05, 2017 @04:17PM (#14491392)
Consider how much more common this would be if wireless ISPs added more reasonable options for adding additional devices to your plan. More devices which would eat through your crazy low transfer cap more quickly...which they currently charge you quite a bit to tack on.
Re:iPad Pro by ghaff on Monday June 05, 2017 @04:47PM (#14491822)
I honestly don't have much interest as things stand. I'm on a theoretically unlimited AT&T plan for my phone. I might pay a few extra bucks to get other devices onto cellular. But, for the fees as they exist today, I'll just make do with my phone if WiFi isn't available.
Re:iPad Pro by amygdyl on Monday June 05, 2017 @11:27PM (#14494523)
I'm almost surely​being inadvertently obtuse, but how in the heck is it legal to restrict my use of the service I pay for. Is there a case law reference easily pointed out?
Re:iPad Pro by CPLX on Monday June 05, 2017 @05:04PM (#14492029)
Indeed. I've often wondered why my Macbook Pro can't just have this option. I would use it fairly infrequently but when I did it would be so damm handy.
Re:iPad Pro by artursapek on Monday June 05, 2017 @05:49PM (#14492482)
I bought a new Thinkpad last fall and it has a slot for a SIM card. What I don't know is where on earth I can get a good cellular internet plan I can use with this! Just something for occasional light use (emergency SSH sessions, etc).
Re:iPad Pro by hn_user2 on Monday June 05, 2017 @06:51PM (#14493021)
I would pop a Ting SIM card in.

https://ting.com

Sprint / T-mobile network, so not as good coverage, but $6 a month and just pay for what you use for data.

Re:iPad Pro by throwanem on Monday June 05, 2017 @09:53PM (#14494104)
Excellent customer service, too. I'm probably going to another provider soon, since I've been using my cell plan heavily enough for a while now to make Ting not wholly economical - but I'm probably going to keep the account active and the SIM in my satchel, just because it's worth $6 a month to have the option if I need it.
Re:iPad Pro by artursapek on Monday June 05, 2017 @10:09PM (#14494150)
Awesome, hadn't heard of this. Very responsive customer service. Thanks for the reference. Just placed an order for a SIM card. Hope it works with Linux! :)
Re:iPad Pro by swombat on Monday June 05, 2017 @06:51PM (#14493019)
If you ever come to the UK, Three offers plans that have free roaming in about 60 countries including the US. Works with PAYG too.
Re:iPad Pro by kartickv on Tuesday June 06, 2017 @04:11AM (#14495580)
I'll go one step further — any pro tablet, and any $1000+ device, should have it builtin.

It doesn't add much cost. You can get an entire smartphone with LTE for less than $100. So maybe the LTE costs $20.