Well the downside of it is that you can use iPad pro without keyboard because its optimized for a touch, while with Surface pro you can't do much without a keyboard, windows is nowhere near as touch friendly as iOS. So you end up with a flimsy laptop like tablet that you can't even put on your laps without it collapsing...

You can completely use a Surface Pro without a keyboard. It has a touch screen, on-screen keyboard and a stylus. I use it frequently without a keyboard.

You can, but it's not convenient with a bad windows touch support.

Windows has a tablet mode that adapts to be touch friendly. Its pretty good actually

with what apps? Windows has very few good touch based apps available. If all you do is browse or read pdfs/books sure but my surface is all but useless for much else. The stylus is ok but most graphics apps do a really poor job of supporting touch. Whereas the iPad has a bunch of great touch based graphics apps.

yeah but do you need core i7 and full GPU to use a tablet mode? What can you do in tablet mode to use the specs that surface users gloat about?

I feel like you're grasping at anything you can right now. Would you like to be more forthcoming with your opinion here without the required song and dance?

On the contrary, usaphp is making a valid point, which is that the Surface has two modes, and that many things that work well in one mode don't work well in the other. In tablet mode, you're generally using lighter weight apps, so you don't need the full power of the device. Or, if you're using pro apps like IDEs, they're generally not touch-optimised. You can't have both at once. You can in theory, but not in practice, as every review points out.

It's a textbook example of moving the goal posts.

I dont think its a stretch to see that it is nice to have a tablet device for things like note taking and web browsing on the same device that I can do things like run Matlab simulations

Where is this coming from?

I use my Windows 10 2-in-1 device in tablet mode at least 75% of the time. It absolutely is touch friendly.

What do you do in tablet mode? I bought a surface pro 4 and returned it after a few weeks. Reading a PDF was just straight up horrible as I couldn't a single app that was touch friendly with appropriate features. I.e. highlighting things required too many pen-clicks, on very tiny icons

The majority of my tablet usage is browsing the web with Edge, which has such good touch support that I now use it as my daily browser even when I'm not in tablet mode. Other than that I:

- check my emails;

- manage my todo lists (previously with Wunderlist, now with Microsoft To-Do);

- watch Twitch with Livebeard or Unstream;

- watch YouTube with TubeCast (could use a better app for this, but I haven't looked in a long time);

- rent and watch movies from the Store app;

- read and manage my notes with OneNote;

- listen to music with Groove;

- use Twitter with Aeries or Tweetium;

- read my Pocket articles with Latermark;

- listen to podcasts with Grover Pro;

I make liberal use of the window snapping feature to do most of those things side-by-side with my browser open.

When in tablet mode I'm primary consuming content, and I've found that my Windows device is just as good at that as an iPad or Android tablet. If I'm in tablet mode I'm sticking to the apps that were built for touch, i.e. apps from the store and Edge, not poking around in VSCode or other apps meant for a mouse or keyboard.

What really sold it for me was that I can just flip it over into full laptop mode whenever I want and have 16gb, core i7 dev laptop ready to go instantly.

For reading PDFs, I'd recommend taking a look at Edge again. It's pretty great for reading PDFs and ebooks with the new Creator's Update.

As for a YouTube app, take a look at mytube. The Dev very recently released a complete overhaul of the app and while I wasn't a huge fan before, it is now the by far best YouTube app on the store imo.

Already does fluent design (acrylic) and is very actively supported. Just days ago it added 360 support for example which I think no other app does. It's really good.

Thanks for the suggestion! I've used MyTube a long while ago but didn't like the UI or experience. I'll be sure to give it another try, as TubeCast has too many bugs and doesn't let me resize it to less than 2/3 screen height.

Full PDF support in Edge isn't there yet, until the Fall Creators Update https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/05/04/annou...

There are a few good touch friendly PDF apps https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/6eb35y/why_the_new...

....the default app Reader? It couldn't be any more touch and pen friendly.

But what's the point of getting core i7 and power hungry gpu to use a tablet mode?

do you want to have a discussion or do you just have an ax to grind?

What's the point of your comment?

I assume his point is that several people (judging on your comments being downvoted) think you are just bashing surface with no good reason.

First you respond saying that the problem with the Surface is it's not touch-friendly, then when pointed out that it apparently is you reply saying that if it's used in touch mode then its power is irrelevant, and you seem to be missing the point that being able to operate as a powerful machine OR a touch-friendly machine, with the user being able to choose between them, is a double win, not a double loss.

Basically, your comments on this subject come across as biased in favour of iPad over Surface. And I say that as somebody who has never owned a Surface and who hasn't owned an iPad for several years.