News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Atlassian Design by Clownshoesms on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @03:33AM (#14244615)
Well said. Worst UX I've ever seen, with the most ardent corporate fanbase.*

* Proviso: Said corporate fanbasers have many times said to me how it's so configurable etc, after spending weeks in the trenches fixing trivial nonsense.

Re:Atlassian Design by hdhzy on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @03:41AM (#14244651)
I've got exactly the same experience: it takes weeks to do a minor adjustment to task flow due to administration overhead but people still say it's super configurable. What difference does this power make if you cannot exercise it?!
Re:Atlassian Design by Clownshoesms on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @04:20AM (#14244809)
None. I think like everything IBM, Microsoft, and now Atlassian, no-one ever lost their job by using Jira.

i.e. the masses have formed an opinion, Jira won't get you fired. Something else will, so if in doubt, use Jira.

Lot of people in doubt out there.

Re:Atlassian Design by hdhzy on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @04:51AM (#14244949)
Good point.

It's a defensive behavior and in a low trust culture one would be more concerned about choosing something good enough rather than risk experimenting with a new but unproven tool.

Re:Atlassian Design by Clownshoesms on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @05:19AM (#14245061)
Well said.
Re:Atlassian Design by mdekkers on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @06:15AM (#14245256)
Indeed. I find that the vast majority of the time, their UX actually gets in the way of the power and configurability. Moreover, many things are overly complex, in the sense that you don't get anything back for the complexity introduced.
Re:Atlassian Design by pjmlp on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @03:42AM (#14244653)
Maybe as corporate fanboy I am biased, but I am yet to find any other similar product, where I have as much joy to use as Jira.

Which tells a lot about the alternatives targeted at corporate users.

Re:Atlassian Design by Clownshoesms on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @03:57AM (#14244716)
I've never had joy using Jira, but if there's something nice out there I'm all for it. Mantis was a PHP one back in the day that just did issue tracking, and I loved it for that. But purely issue tracking, not the whole hog.
Re:Atlassian Design by ygra on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @04:10AM (#14244774)
For a lightweight integrated solution I liked Trac quite a bit. JIRA+Confluence+Fisheye (to me at least) don't work as well together, although things are getting better over time.
Re:Atlassian Design by Clownshoesms on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @04:24AM (#14244823)
I was hoping Gitlab filled this space. I keep hoping someone else will fill this space without doing any work. Time to dust off the open source hands! anyone that knows my code shudders in anticipation
Re:Atlassian Design by Clownshoesms on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @05:23AM (#14245082)
If that was a known upvote for my poor code, the pain you are in right now is my revenge.
Re:Atlassian Design by angry_octet on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @05:08AM (#14245020)
Considering the code bases of each product began by forking one of the others, it is amazing how hard they have worked since then to prevent them working together.

Other companies can only achieve this level of broken through acquisitions, distributed teams, competing for scarce internal resources and stack ranking. Atlassian achieved it by ignoring customer requirements, rapid feature growth, and monolithic java.

Re:Atlassian Design by cel1ne on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @04:21AM (#14244812)
Has anyone tried out YouTrack from Jetbrains?*

* https://www.jetbrains.com/youtrack/

Re:Atlassian Design by douche on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @06:24AM (#14245280)
No, but thinking about it pretty hard - anything has to be an improvement on what we're currently using. Especially after getting an email this morning that our current solution has had a big data breach...
Re:Atlassian Design by drcongo on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @07:15AM (#14245451)
It's the only issue tracker out there that even comes close to having a user experience as poor as JIRA.
Re:Atlassian Design by romanovcode on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @04:37AM (#14244874)
Looks even worse.
Re:Atlassian Design by Clownshoesms on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @04:46AM (#14244927)
Felt like an ad too to make it worse.
Re:Atlassian Design by cel1ne on Thursday May 04, 2017 @03:59PM (#14268201)
What do you mean?
Re:Atlassian Design by mdekkers on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @06:20AM (#14245268)
yes, a couple of years back. We all got sick and tired of JIRA. After 6 months, our devs were literally begging for JIRA.
Re:Atlassian Design by mbesto on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @04:02AM (#14244738)
> Well said. Worst UX I've ever seen, with the most ardent corporate fanbase.*

I've never understood this trope. Atlassian grew because developers used their product, not corporate fanbasers[0]

[0] - http://tomtunguz.com/saas-innovators-solution/

Re:Atlassian Design by richmarr on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @04:12AM (#14244778)
Developers are fantastic at bikeshedding on our tools rather than focusing on (a) what's important to the broader company and (b) what's actually usable to anyone who hasn't spent months learning to use our opinionated optimisations.
Re:Atlassian Design by Clownshoesms on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @04:24AM (#14244829)
Yep, you get a developer invested in something, they'll swear black and blue it's the best thing since sliced bread. Till you explain it to them.
Re:Atlassian Design by Clownshoesms on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @05:24AM (#14245087)
That's talking about me in my younger days. Everything looks exciting, until you realize it's all patterns that have been done before.
Re:Atlassian Design by romanovcode on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @05:01AM (#14244995)
Not developers - managers.
Re:Atlassian Design by sleepychu on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @04:03AM (#14244743)
I don't use the terrible bug tracker because I chose to, it's not generally enough to make me leave a company!
Re:Atlassian Design by LoSboccacc on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @04:10AM (#14244770)
yeah watched grown up adults spending a month deciding and configuring bug level names and then argue a year how to use the severity/priority matrix

no thanks.

Re:Atlassian Design by Clownshoesms on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @04:18AM (#14244803)
When all you have to do is hold meetings and decide these issues, that's all you can do :)

We're a foolish species most of the time.

Re:Atlassian Design by mstade on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @05:24AM (#14245084)
So accurate.

I was involved in meetings some time back where the aim was to try and organize a support board in Jira.

The lanes were fine I thought, but we also had priority / severity that users could set themselves. My perspective was that this is useless, that people will always set stuff to the highest priority because to them, it probably is. Instead, we should either do away with this altogether and just have the priority be: whatever is on top, and don't let "regular" users change this – or – we have a priority master, a single person responsible for owning these priorities to have a consistent opinion. It doesn't much matter if it's "right" so long as it's consistent, because it is an opinion, not a natural fact.

Of course this was shot down and the next several weeks were spent discussing the priority levels. Looking at the board this morning I see all tickets are at the highest priority – shocker! No one cares of course and the point isn't so much whether or not I was right, but the fact that this is what people do for a living makes me less anxious about the impending automation doom. We'll figure out useless jobs for everyone I'm sure!

Re:Atlassian Design by Clownshoesms on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @05:35AM (#14245128)
The final straw for me was an outsourced dev asking me about time estimates for an agile project that other developers had estimated for.

"How much time will this take?" (Very demanding Asian boss in Australia Post)

"No idea, might be quick, might be complex, I don't know your environment."

"Well, developers have said 8 points. How much time is that??"

"I don't know".

His response: "Stay behind after the meeting, I need to talk to you about respect for authority".

Fun times.

Re:Atlassian Design by LoSboccacc on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @05:47AM (#14245172)
ah good ole corporate agile, never change.
Re:Atlassian Design by Clownshoesms on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @05:58AM (#14245206)
Oh I have to get this off my chest. So many companies saying "Yes, we're sort of agile, but we have a fairly bureaucratic structure that is unamenable to change".

If you're not agile, stop lying about it. I saw a job on Seek the other day advertising a DevOps roles - turns out they want a helpdesk operator. Stop lying in job ads, and stop drinking the kool aid.

None of it helps.

Re:Atlassian Design by LoSboccacc on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @06:10AM (#14245243)
to be fair, corporate lying to appear nicer doesn't surprise me much, but developers that propagate the workplace bullshit really hurt me deeply.
Re:Atlassian Design by LoSboccacc on Tuesday May 02, 2017 @05:46AM (#14245168)
customer facing issue level:

- we're literally dying

- we're actively losing money

- we're not earning enough

- we're just being annoying