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Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by grecy on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @04:42PM (#14197787)
I run up against this sometimes in Canada.

I studied "Software Engineering" and have a bachelors degree from Australia. I am a member of the Australian Institute of Engineers (accredited degree).

If I say something like "I am a Software Engineer" when I work in Canada, any other Engineers will get all prickly and go on about how that's not a recognized kind of Engineer, and it's illegal to say-so, blah blah.

Even if I put B. Eng. (Software) after my name they get uppity.

To get my degree accredited in Canada, I must work some huge number of hours as a Software Engineer working with Software Engineers. But of course, there is no such thing in Canada, and so... yeah.

Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by slavik81 on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @05:14PM (#14198093)
> To get my degree accredited in Canada, I must work some huge number of hours as a Software Engineer working with Software Engineers. But of course, there is no such thing in Canada, and so... yeah.

We exist. I'm a Canadian P.Eng. (Software). I got my experience working on software for controlling unmanned vehicles, and I know a few dozen other Software P.Engs.

Requiring some amount of local experience makes sense, as a major part of engineering is ensuring your project abides by all local laws that govern what you're doing. Getting the required work experience under the supervision of another engineer is a lot rarer than in other disciplines, but on the bright side, that P.Eng. title is required a lot less often than in other disciplines.

With that being said, it certainly is difficult for foreign engineers to get their degrees recognized. If any improvement is to be made on that front, the government almost certainly will need to prod the engineering associations into doing a better job of evaluating foreign credentials.

Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by cholantesh on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @05:35PM (#14198286)
I've considered getting my P.Eng. once I complete my degree; do you feel that it's a worthwhile credential to have? Every P.Eng. that I've met has been involved in mechanical or electrical engineering, so I'd like to get the perspective of someone in software.
Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by slavik81 on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @05:51PM (#14198440)
I've never used it, as I quit my job and went into grad school about the time I got it.

There are possible career benefits, though they're not huge. The company I left was just starting to require a software engineer on every team to sign off on each release. And, my father convinced me to do the paperwork for the P.Eng. with a story of a raise he missed out on due to not bothering with the P.Eng. despite holding an engineering degree.

Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by cholantesh on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @08:22PM (#14199478)
Thanks for the perspective; seems like, in the aggregate, it's not really worth it for professionals in our line of work. :/
Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by kevin_thibedeau on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @06:44PM (#14198865)
In the US it's only of use in industries where life safety is important (you have to sign off on potentially harmful technology) or to serve as an expert witness in court.

Getting one generally requires at least one existing PE who can vouch for the quality of your work which creates a chicken and egg problem if there are no PEs where you work.

Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by cholantesh on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @08:19PM (#14199466)
Thanks; this was my suspicion, too. The other PEs I've spoken to were bewildered that I'd consider it, given that they needed it basically to get managerial/senior engineering positions on public sector projects.
Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by mahyarm on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @06:42PM (#14198845)
As a Canadian, the career benefit is zilch, because most of Canada's software career opportunities pale in comparison to the USA (pay is half or less, house prices are pretty close in price in employment centers!) . And in the USA, nobody cares about that when you write software.
Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by grecy on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @07:29PM (#14199183)
Oh wow, I had no idea.

Thanks very much, there is hope!

(And thanks to all the other replies too!)

Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by smnrchrds on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @04:49PM (#14197860)
There are 598 Software Professional Engineers in Ontario alone. You can see their names by selecting 'Software Engineering' as dicipline and leaving the rest of the form empty here: http://forum.peo.on.ca/cgi-bin/EPIM_Search/EPIM_Form_Search....

Furthurmore, there are 1316 Computer Engineers. These are not huge numbers, but it is wrong to say that there is no such thing as software engineering in Canada.

Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by CaveTech on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @05:34PM (#14198280)
598 P.Eng. in a province with a population of 14 million. The odds of working with one without deliberately trying to work with one being close to none.
Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by glibgil on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @05:05PM (#14198006)
Computer engineer is something else. It is like an electrical engineer for computing
Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by blackguardx on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @05:18PM (#14198118)
No, a computer engineering program typically offers a blended course of software and hardware. It is typically half way between computer science and electrical engineering. That being said, it all depends on the university. At some universities, you can pretty much take all comp sci classes as a computer engineering major. The major difference is that it is a "real engineering" degree in that it requires the engineering core curriculum.
Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by Jtsummers on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @06:11PM (#14198601)
I cannot to speak to all schools, but at Georgia Tech Computer Engineering was (circa 2005) EE with 3 CS courses, and instead of taking courses like power engineering the focus was on courses related to computer hardware design or applications.

Looking at it now, it seems they've dropped that 3 CS course requirement (at the time it was the same first 3 courses as CS majors) and replaced it with 1 required CS course: Computing for Engineers. Everything else, required, is ECE (electrical and computer engineering) with options to satisfy some major electives via CS courses (up to 7 by the hours, but no specific sequence, required to be 3xxx or above meaning a student would need to take at least 2 or 3, depending on present CS curriculum, to even qualify for them with prerequisites).

I picked this one as it seems like the quintessential CMPE program from what I've seen, and it's one of the top engineering schools in the US so it ends up influencing or setting the standard by which other US schools do things. And specifically, it's not halfway. It's often (from a perusal of other schools I'm familiar with) heavily biased towards the hardware side (by requirements, electives of course permit the student some leeway for individual breadth).

EDIT: I did misread the current GT requirements, seems they moved 2 of the programming courses into the ECE department and out of CS.

Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by slavik81 on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @07:00PM (#14198983)
It was definitely a blend at Queen's University in Ontario. Computer engineers could choose between hardware and software specializations. All engineers shared a common first year. Then all electrical and computer engineers shared a common second year. Third and forth years focused more on the specialties, though there was still significant overlap.

Also worth noting, professional registrations may not line up exactly with degrees. You don't necessarily need a degree in computer engineering to be a computer engineer. The board would likely find a degree in electrical engineering and a few years of relevant work experience to be sufficient. (Though, this may vary by jurisdiction.)

Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by conwaysgame on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @04:45PM (#14197813)
Software Engineering is definitely a recognized engineering in Canada. And it's only a year of working with a P.Eng. But you're right, it's a chicken/egg problem, which is super unfortunate. I think somewhere down the line accreditation will be more important, but PEO has backed themselves in to a corner.
Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by lacampbell on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @06:31PM (#14198751)
For you, what's the distinction between being a software engineer, and being a software developer? The line seems blurry to me.
Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by sidlls on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @07:09PM (#14199049)
I'm not Canadian, but a long time ago, before graduate school, I was on an engineering track. Most of my friends joined my path (physics) but several went on to advanced degrees in engineering, accreditation/licensing, etc. When I describe to them what "engineering" is like in this industry they snicker and guffaw. The two fields are quite far apart. Mainly this is because software "engineering" is still quite immature. "Real" engineering has been something humans have worked on for literally millennia, so in this sense it's hardly a fair comparison.

One thing that is especially hilarious is the interview process: the equivalent of the software world's interview process would be to grill an engineer by requiring him to, say, solve a projectile motion with air-resistance problem (fairly common in first-year calculus-based mechanics classes and as review in sophomore/junior year classical mechanics) on the whiteboard and using that as a way to gauge his ability to design whole systems. These interview processes aren't good at looking for engineers, they're good at looking for code monkeys with a high opinion of themselves.

Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by lacampbell on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @10:28PM (#14200012)
When I describe to them what "engineering" is like in this industry they snicker and guffaw. The two fields are quite far apart. Mainly this is because software "engineering" is still quite immature. "Real" engineering has been something humans have worked on for literally millennia, so in this sense it's hardly a fair comparison.

That's my underlying feeling as well. Software Engineering seems like a futuristic discipline, like being a Nanobot Technologist. We're just not there yet - why bother pretending?

Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by khedoros1 on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @07:49PM (#14199314)
Depends on where you are. At least colloquially in many places, they're the same thing. In places that have engineering certification boards and enforce the use of the word "engineer", an "engineer" would usually be able to analyze the correctness of, and sign off on something safety-critical, taking on some level of legal liability for doing that. Kind of like the civil engineer signing off on a bridge, or an architect signing off on a building design.

The line's blurry, except for places where the law gives a sharper distinction.

Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by xer0x on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @05:33PM (#14198276)
Yeah, over here in BC everyone gets all uppity too. The local engineering authority recently told a company that they couldn't advertise that it was hiring "software engineers" because it said they couldn't use the word "engineer" in the job title.
Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by rhinoceraptor on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @05:00PM (#14197966)
There's also several specialties relating to software that are similarly lacking "real engineer" status, such as QA engineering, site reliability engineering and security testing engineering.
Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by Waterluvian on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @06:32PM (#14198765)
I do software engineering and work alongside many brilliant people with Canadian engineering degrees. I happen to have geography and science degrees, so while I do a lot of the same work, I'm not an engineer. I've settled on being a "developer" or a "roboticist".
Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by raverbashing on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @05:12PM (#14198072)
Welcome to Canada, "they're not racist", BUT a degree from Australia is worth the same as one from DeVry
Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by alexlajeunesse on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @05:27PM (#14198219)
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. The same thing is true of Canadian citizens graduating from Canadian universities. If you want to work as a Professional Engineer in Canada you have to go through your provinces Engineer in Training program before you can become a PEng. I have Bachelors of Electrical Engineering from an accredited engineering program and would have to do the same thing as the OP if I wanted to become a PEng. For example, in BC (PDF): https://www.apeg.bc.ca/getmedia/f71c99f7-44d3-42c6-a313-70de...
Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by _RPM on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @05:38PM (#14198313)
That's an example of a deadlock.
Re:Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in... by Pica_soO on Tuesday April 25, 2017 @05:30PM (#14198242)
At the end of the day, all open world idealism aside, the guild of engineers votes with their feet for guild protectionism. And of course its all to protect the users. Not sure. At least you are in good company- after the cold war ended, lots of famous russian mathematicians and doctors searched for work in the west- and there degrees where not accepted. I mean russian mathematicians, that combination is nearly a brand. Fear of looking lousy next to the imported guy.