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Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by Kurtz79 on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @06:42AM (#14137679)
I wonder (I'm not from UK), is there really zero chance of someone from Labour to challenge Corbyn (someone more moderate/center leaning) and rally the pro-EU voters ?
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by Silhouette on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @06:52AM (#14137730)
The Labour Party establishment have tried to dethrone Corbyn before and failed.

He's an odd case. He commands a lot of influence among Labour members and to some extent the unions (who have significant ties to and influence on the Labour Party here). This makes him more-or-less untouchable as party leader.

However, he's loathed by most of the party's current MPs, who are politicians and know he's going to be a liability at election time. And he's not particularly popular among the general public outside the traditional Labour voters, which is why he's going to be a liability.

The irony of the snap election, if it does happen, is that it will be an opportunity for Corbyn to clear out the disloyal backstabbers in the Commons and replace them with more traditional Labour MPs, which is probably why he seems to have said previously that he'd support calls for a snap election. On the other hand, he would probably lose so many MPs altogether that his party would become almost irrelevant in the next Parliament, much as the Lib Dems did last time.

A somewhat ironic but apparently quite plausible outcome to all the political manoeuvres is that Corbyn says Labour will support the snap election, almost all of his MPs openly rebel, the election consequently doesn't achieve the 2/3 support needed in the Commons and so doesn't happen, May is weakened and probably steps down as a result, and Corbyn is also so weakened that he finally goes, thus making the two party leaders who were playing the political games the major victims of those games.

We live in interesting times, literally and perhaps euphemistically as well.

[Edit: Added a missing bit. Thanks, gpvos.]

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by TheOtherHobbes on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @07:09AM (#14137820)
I was a Corbyn supporter, on the basis that we'd had too many Labour leaders who went against the wishes of the members and supported Tory policy.

Then on Brexit, he went against the wishes of the members and supported Tory policy.

Needless to say I'm no longer a supporter. Of course, it's easy to forget that all the other leadership candidates and challengers would have done the same.

I'd love to see the scenario in your final paragraph. I think May knows it's all or nothing, and if anything gets in the way of her timetable, it's game over for her and for Brexit.

I don't honestly expect that to happen, because I'm fairly sure that Corbyn is either delusional or compromised - and also willing to use a three-line whip to make sure the election goes ahead.

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by ue_ on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @07:28AM (#14137925)
I'm still a Corbyn supporter, and I think he's had a difficult time, having to owe up to his own goals, the goals of his grassroots movement and the goals of the old time voters and unions. This is very highlighted on the EU move; I don't think it's charitable to say that he "supported Tory policy"; the members don't mean anything when the majority of people voting for you aren't members.

So what would you have done if you were him? Go with your members and get booted out of any sensible position, or go with your voting base and disregard your members? Brexit was a hot button topic for many reasons and arguably the fact that someone is either a Tory supporter or betraying their voter base is an example of politics becoming more about principle than doing what's right.

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by RugnirViking on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @12:26PM (#14148988)
'Go with your members and get booted out of any sensible position' I don't understand why its to be taken as a given that noone will vote for the anti-brexit party, given that a was a good 45% of the population supported it? surely then all you have to do is win 10% of the population over with other arguments to win?
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by DonaldFisk on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @07:32AM (#14137944)
Corbyn is not to blame for this. When Harriet Harman was caretaker leader after Ed Miliband resigned, Labour MPs voted in favour of having the referendum on EU membership. They should therefore feel bound by its result.

The only party which voted against having the referendum, and who aren't similarly bound, were the SNP.

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by WickyNilliams on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @09:19AM (#14138555)
> Then on Brexit, he went against the wishes of the members and supported Tory policy.

May was campaigning to remain before she was appointed leader. And said categorically she would not call a snap election. The lack of conviction is equal parts depressing and hilarious

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by Baeocystin on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @07:33AM (#14137952)
Now that Article 50 has been triggered, isn't Brexit a done deal but for the negotiating?

(I'm not in the UK, apologies if this is a common question.)

[edit] Thanks for the answers!

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by Nursie on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @07:47AM (#14138032)
Unclear.

Some legal opinions have been proferred that it could be reversible, even though if you read the text of A50 there's no mention of such a mechanism.

Personally I would have thought that was something you would want to exclude - article 50 could be used as a tool to extract concessions "We're leavingg unless...".

There's apparently a court case in Ireland to try to establish this.

Also there's the possibility it could be reversed with unanimous consent from the other 27 members because, when it comes down to it, the members make the rules.

It's entirely possible that the UK could be made to leave and reapply though, which would make for many more years of turmoil.

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by sideshowb on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @07:45AM (#14138023)
It's possible we could retract Brexit though the legal position is unclear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_50_of_the_Treaty_on_Eu...
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by tonyedgecombe on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @08:14AM (#14138170)
There is quite a wide range of opinions on the desired outcome of the negotiations, often referred to as either a soft or hard brexit.
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by Silhouette on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @09:33AM (#14138653)
It's possibly worth mentioning for those not closely following UK news that "soft Brexit" now usually seems to mean "remaining a member of the Single Market", and "hard Brexit" usually seems to mean "anything less than that".

I don't personally think this is a very useful distinction. By this definition, a soft Brexit is what for example the Lib Dems are advocating at the moment. However, I think it is also highly unlikely to happen, because to a first approximation it is leaving-in-name-only and thus probably an untenable position for the government to adopt politically. The entire spectrum of other possibilities, from retaining relatively close ties in some respects up to completely walking away with no deal at all, then fall under the single banner of hard Brexit, but treating such widely different possible outcomes as equivalent doesn't seem to be very useful (unless for political reasons you want to try to equate them anyway, I suppose).

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by DanBC on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @09:46AM (#14138728)
The tea metaphor:

"Tea?"

"OK, go on."

"There's no kettle so I'm burning the house down to heat water."

"Now wait a…"

"Shut up, I've a clear mandate for tea."

https://twitter.com/louisejjohnson/status/829617043582369792

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by Silhouette on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @12:15PM (#14140053)
Yes, there's certainly an element of that going on, and it's not surprising that a lot of people are concerned about it.

I suppose to be balanced we should also acknowledge the other side's similarly daft argument that they accept that people voted for tea and yet propose a scheme in which you can't buy any of tea bags, tea leaves, a kettle, an urn, or an instant hot water tap, though it's possible that milk or lemon will still be negotiable. :-)

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by ZeroGravitas on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @08:51AM (#14138375)
"Then on Brexit, he went against the wishes of the members and supported Tory policy."

This is slightly simplistic, since the Tory party was split on the issue of Brexit.

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by DonaldFisk on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @07:46AM (#14138030)
How is Corbyn playing political games? He had the overwhelming support of members in two leadership elections. The people playing political games have been those Labour MPs who have been trying to get him to stand down. It's almost as if they'd rather have the Tories in government.

Presumably the general public don't like him because the media have been telling them he's unelectable, even though he's been voted leader twice and his policies are popular with the electorate even if he isn't.

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by Silhouette on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @01:36PM (#14140949)
How is Corbyn playing political games?

I suspect he's considering his own position and the general dissatisfaction he faces among his current crop of MPs, and he's probably figuring this is a chance to clean house a bit. I also suspect the extremely short notice given by May is designed to frustrate that effort.

It's almost as if they'd rather have the Tories in government.

I imagine some current Labour MPs with Blairite leanings really might prefer having the Tories in government if a Corbyn-led administration is the alternative. The Tory position on a lot of issues is probably closer to their own.

Presumably the general public don't like him because the media have been telling them he's unelectable, even though he's been voted leader twice and his policies are popular with the electorate even if he isn't.

But being voted leader by a party who like him is far different from getting votes from anyone else, and almost everyone's policies are popular until you start asking the hard questions like how you're going to pay for it or who else is going to lose out as a result. I don't think either the general public's view of him or any resulting electability problems are entirely down to the media.

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by DonaldFisk on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @05:10PM (#14142951)
I would hope that any Labour MPs who want the Tories to win rather than a Corbyn-led Labour Party would have the integrity to resign their seats and stand as Tories, instead of undermining the party from within.

Theresa May's just taking advantage of her huge poll lead, which is mostly down to a divided official opposition.

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by Silhouette on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @06:51PM (#14143754)
I think a lot of Labour MPs are in a tricky ethical and political bind at the moment.

When they were elected, Corbyn wasn't leader. The platform they were elected on wasn't Corbyn's, and the people who elected them were their local constituents, not just Corbyn-supporting members of the Labour party.

On the other hand, they ran under a Labour banner, which will be why quite a lot of them are MPs today, and it wasn't the New Labour of Tony Blair, it was the Labour of Ed Miliband, which now belongs to Jeremy Corbyn.

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by gedankespiel on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @07:01AM (#14137787)
>who are politicians and know he's going to be a liability at election time

I daresay that it's them who are making the party a liability. They've made the Labour Party seem completely ridiculous - and that's not Corbyn's fault.

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by caoilte on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @07:17AM (#14137863)
openly blocking the call for an early election would be really interesting, but I wonder if it would actually lead to either Corbyn or May resigning.

There are straight forward routes through for both of them.

May :- repeal the fixed term parliaments act (which would be an entertaining kick in the teeth to the Lib Dems)

Corbyn :- accuse Labour rebels of not respecting democracy and even question their motives w/regard to Brexit.

On that basis I can't see enough Labour rebels actually turning out to block it. They're more likely to walk away from politics completely (their heart was never really in the business of fighting for something).

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by arethuza on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @06:55AM (#14137753)
"almost all of his MPs openly rebel"

No wonder - I suspect a lot of them will be out of a job soon.

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by Silhouette on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @07:15AM (#14137854)
But not for at least three years unless there is an early election...
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by mcjiggerlog on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @06:52AM (#14137735)
There is zero chance of that happening before the election, yes.

The only major pro-EU voice in parliament now (discounting regional parties) is Lib Dems.

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by arethuza on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @07:20AM (#14137876)
Worth noting that the largest "regional" party, the SNP, has 54 MPs which is six times the 9 MPs that the Lib Dems have.
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by TorKlingberg on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @07:59AM (#14138094)
Yes, but their upside is limited. They already have almost all Scottish seats, and they are not going to win elsewhere.
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by youngtaff on Wednesday April 19, 2017 @06:13AM (#14146689)
Our biggest hope is the SNP put candidates into England
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by s_kilk on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @07:44AM (#14138019)
And they're an actual opposition too
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by arethuza on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @06:46AM (#14137705)
Pretty much, Corbyn has gathered a lot of grass roots support but will fail to appeal to the wider electorate. I suspect there is a good chance that Labour in the rest of the UK will implode after this election in the same way that it has collapsed in Scotland (although I'm not clear who voters would transfer their loyalties to as they have here in Scotland where the SNP now dominates).
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by gideonparanoid on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @06:48AM (#14137715)
A lot of that grass roots support is young & as a result has much less weight for voting, unfortunately.
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by gtirloni on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @07:02AM (#14137792)
Unless older people's votes get counted twice, how does the young have less weight for voting?

As an outsider, the news that got to me was that older people simply showed up to vote (and others didn't).

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by gideonparanoid on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @07:12AM (#14137840)
I'm thinking of the fact that there's far more 'older' people, young people are less likely to vote & young people also captures people below the voting age.
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by awjr on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @09:18AM (#14138550)
As you get older you get more politically active. I'm guessing the retired have more time on their hands.

The young just aren't too bothered. Have a feeling, with Brexit, the biggest losers are the young and I hope that there is at least some semblance that they can do something about it this time.

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by barrkel on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @08:31AM (#14138266)
Voting probability is lower.
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by d4rti on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @08:50AM (#14138368)
There are more older people in total.
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by evgen on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @06:46AM (#14137703)
Nothing will happen in the short term, but the upcoming hammering that Labour will endure is probably going to be the catalyst for either a successful challenge or a final split between the populist far left in Labour and the urban Blairites.
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by headmelted on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @06:43AM (#14137691)
In the current timeframe, yes.

The only person who's trying to do that right now and is at all visible to the public eye is Tony Blair.. and there's just no way that's going to go over with the public.

Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by RugnirViking on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @06:45AM (#14137699)
The thought of Tony Blair attempting this in vain is amusing to me. If it was literally anyone else...
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by deadbunny on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @08:07AM (#14138125)
Everyone is always describing Corbyn as some far left nutjob, look at Europe or Scandinavia and you'll see he is actually the moderate left. Don't let the continued hatchet job by every media outlet in the country fool you.
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by Keronk on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @08:37AM (#14138302)
Corbyn isn't in Europe or Scandanavia, I'm going to assume your post you're under 30 and in the UK judging by your support for Corbyn. Maybe you should ask yourself why in your lifetime a Labour leader hasn't won an election without dominating the centre of the political spectrum. Corbyn is too far left to win a general election the press have nothing to do with it, Teresa May is becoming increasing right wing and he lacks the common sense to vacate that position.
Re:UK Prime Minister Theresa May announces intention to hold... by deadbunny on Tuesday April 18, 2017 @08:57AM (#14138403)
> I'm going to assume your post you're under 30 and in the UK judging by your support for Corbyn.

Nice assumptions there, shame they are incorrect other than my location. My point is that Corbyn is a bog standard left of centre politician in a left of centre party.

If you honestly believe the press have nothing to do with the image of him being a left wing loon then I honestly don't think you're paying attention. He is continually painted as a terrorist sympathizer for his views that talking and treating others as humans actually gets shit resolved (you know, diplomacy), he's quoted out of context time and again to paint him into the fringe left rather than where he actually stands.

That said, I agree that he's not the right candidate to get elected in the UK and he has been particularly ineffectual at providing any meaningful opposition to either Cameron or May both of whom I think Thatcher would think was a bit extreme.