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Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by jjeaff on Sunday March 12, 2017 @08:55PM (#13854387)
It's almost that simple in the US if your situation is that simple. What happens in NZ if you make $400 selling vintage cabbage patch dolls on eBay? What if you earned $1k in returns on your investment account? What if you are renting your place out on Airbnb?

If all you have is a simple income in the US, then the 1040ez is a single page and you can file it for free online if you make under a certain amount. You can pay a few dollars to file online if you make more.

Obamacare has added an extra level of complexity now, but that is also very simple if you don't need or want the subsidy.

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by mortehu on Sunday March 12, 2017 @10:20PM (#13854752)
In practice, the difference between US and other countries is still pretty big.

In US, about 60 percent of individual tax returns are filed by a professional tax preparer, at every income level. People who owe no income tax still have to file tax returns to receive tax credits. In many other modern countries, _the_majority_ of the tax payers file no tax returns at all.

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by smsm42 on Monday March 13, 2017 @01:56AM (#13855546)
60 percent? That's kinda high. Maybe force of habit, since I don't believe 60% of returns need a tax professional. TurboTax or analogous software probably can do most of the middle class returns. That's what tax preparers are use most of the time anyway - they just ask proper questions, get the docs, put them into software in the right places and file the result. May save some time, and knowing where to put the numbers requires some knowledge, so no problem with that, but I doubt it really needs that and can't be done by a good software.

> _the_majority_ of the tax payers file no tax returns at all.

I think there's a confusion here. Maybe several. First of all, in US filers and payers are not the same, as you may pay federal taxes (e.g. by deductions) and still not have to file (e.g. low income). Second, there are state taxes, which most countries don't have. Third, many countries just don't have the tax return as a thing - if you got something deducted, it's gone, good luck getting anything back. In US, you get stuff back for mortgage interest, state taxes, property taxes, charity donations, etc. etc. - you can get quite a decent amount of money back. I think it's better than just sending it over and getting nothing back, even if it could mean a bit more work.

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by thewhitetulip on Monday March 13, 2017 @12:13AM (#13855186)
In India mostly people prepare their own tax statement. If you are a govt official then your taxes are auto deducted AFAIK, if you are working in pvt then there is less than a three step procedure if you are willing to do your statement yourself else upload form16 on a online site to pay tax. Mostly those who earn an awfully large income use tax professionals.
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by xupybd on Sunday March 12, 2017 @09:02PM (#13854421)
Yes you have to file an IR3 if you make other income.

http://www.ird.govt.nz/income-tax-individual/end-year/ir3/ii...

My favourite part of our tax system is the advice to file if you have "income from an illegal enterprise"

EDIT: Just as a reply to the original point. I'm not sure how complicated the US system is. I'm not trying to say it's bad either, it just seems to me that we have a system similar to the one that is getting lobbied against. And I like our system, it works well for me..

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by jwilliams on Sunday March 12, 2017 @10:26PM (#13854775)
I'm not sure how complicated the US system is

FYI - At various stages of my life I've filed in New Zealand, Australia, UK, Switzerland and the US (California).

I can't generalize to all persons, but I do have a decent spread of countries in my own experience - and the US was by some serious margin the most complicated.

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by ransom1538 on Sunday March 12, 2017 @10:32PM (#13854816)
It isn't that bad in the US using turbo tax. Just remember to answer no to receiving payments from the "Ottoman Turkish Empire Settlement". (Actual question).
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by lorenzhs on Monday March 13, 2017 @05:03AM (#13856255)
Kind of an ironic comment on an article about how the maker of said software is lobbying to keep taxes complicated so they can continue to sell you their software, isn't it? :)
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by 0xfeba on Monday March 13, 2017 @09:59AM (#13857852)
> It isn't that bad in the US using turbo tax.

That's entirely the point of the linked article. TurboTax has lobbied to keep the system convoluted so they can sell you their software.

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by wbl on Sunday March 12, 2017 @11:46PM (#13855083)
Why should I have to pay $100 to file my taxes?
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by averagewall on Monday March 13, 2017 @12:04AM (#13855145)
A counter viewpoint - maybe the system has to be complicated to provide all the various incentives that voters want taxes to do, and to patch all the loopholes that would otherwise be open. Maybe such a system is too complicated for a lay person to understand so they delegate the understanding to private enterprises which can compete to provide the cheapest or easiest interface to the complicated system. If it wasn't the taxpayers paying for the complexity directly, it would be the government which would charge everyone via those same taxes to implement their own clunky government computer system that people would hate even more.

Countries with simple tax rules don't get to micromanage their economy so much.

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by int_19h on Monday March 13, 2017 @12:20AM (#13855211)
The system can be complicated, but all those complications can be handled by the tax agency. For the vast majority of people out there, all the data that you put into your tax return is something that IRS already has, or can easily obtain. And when that is not the case, you should really only need to tell them once (and then update if it ever changes, like the number of kids you have).

Tax filing in US is a huge waste of people's time. I wonder if anyone ever computed the amount of people-hours spent on this malarky, and how much productive output it could generate if used for something else.

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by cderwin on Monday March 13, 2017 @03:27AM (#13855860)
HR Block is free if you just file a 1040, the "professional" version is $40. If you're paying $100, either you are seeing a tax professional in person or you are vastly overpaying. Presumably you would only meet with a tax professional if your situation is significantly more complicated than most.
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by tracker1 on Monday March 13, 2017 @04:16AM (#13856071)
I pretty much have to pay the higher amount for preparation, lest I end up in a legal quagmire over the few thousand I earn on the side a year via 1099 income. I can handle the EZ form, but the stuff for business expenses and income become interesting to say the least.

Although I guess it could be worse... I generally have extra taken out of my regular paycheck so I don't have to make quarterly payments. But it's just guesswork for the most part, as I just don't know where things will be precisely. Some years, I'm happy not owing anything, or at least much (I've owed the state a couple times), Other years I get more back than expected.

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by azernik on Sunday March 12, 2017 @09:22PM (#13854506)
This advice is probably not explicitly given by the IRS, but it is what any decent tax attorney will tell you. They got Al Capone not for his other crimes, but for tax evasion.
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by mikeash on Sunday March 12, 2017 @10:45PM (#13854883)
The IRS is totally explicit about this:

"Income from illegal activities, such as money from dealing illegal drugs, must be included in your income on Form 1040, line 21, or on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (Form 1040) if from your self-employment activity."

"If you receive a bribe, include it in your income."

"You must include kickbacks, side commissions, push money, or similar payments you receive in your income on Form 1040, line 21, or on Schedule C or Schedule C-EZ (Form 1040), if from your self-employment activity."

"If you steal property, you must report its fair market value in your income in the year you steal it unless in the same year, you return it to its rightful owner."

See: https://www.irs.gov/publications/p17/ch12.html

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by azernik on Monday March 13, 2017 @12:51AM (#13855315)
That's fantastic. Especially the theft part.
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by joering2 on Monday March 13, 2017 @03:08AM (#13855793)
Im not sure if there is anythng special about it. You can take a bribe, get caught and sentenced but that doesn't excuse you from paying taxes. IRS just wants their cut; they are not criminal law enforcers, just a collection agency.
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by oblio on Monday March 13, 2017 @05:59AM (#13856479)
I think the common expectation is that the illegal income/property will be seized by the state and hopefully returned to its rightful owner. No need to tax anything since the thief won't have anything left at the end.
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by mikeash on Monday March 13, 2017 @09:43AM (#13857725)
The IRS seems to account for that with "unless in the same year, you return it to its rightful owner."

I wonder what happens if you steal something, keep it until the next year, and then return it? Do you declare it as income in the year you steal it, and a loss in the year you return it?

(Probably not. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I recall another document that explains that, while income from illegal activities is taxable, expenses for illegal activities are not deductible.)

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by ragix on Sunday March 12, 2017 @10:28PM (#13854787)
I'm also a kiwi and have been working for over 15 years and have a student loan. The only time I have to do anything is when I file an optional personal tax summary to see if i/them owe anything. It takes less than 5 minutes online and is free.
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by nandemo on Sunday March 12, 2017 @11:21PM (#13855005)
I'm in Japan, not NZ, but the system here is similar to what grandparent described.

In over 10 years here I have never needed to do anything more than to sign a couple of forms provided (and pre-filled-in) by my employer, once a year.

If you make only the equivalent of U$400 in extra income, there's no need to declare it. I think the cap is around U$2000.

If you own a standard investment account, your broker will automatically levy taxes on your dividends and capital gains (rates are the same, BTW). You can still open a different type of account if you want to pay the taxes yourself. But if you're just investing for retirement and going buy-and-hold-forever there's little reason to do so.

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by Taniwha on Monday March 13, 2017 @01:27AM (#13855434)
In NZ we have virtually no deductions ... No carve outs for special interests. So no schedule A .... But more importantly that means that employer withholding is simple. As an employer it's also trivial to do PAYE and get it right.

Also we have no capital gains tax (a mistake IMHO). Tax on interest, (and a second income) is withheld by banks at our nominal marginal rate.

In practice if the govt doesn't care about the tax on your cabbage patch doll, unless you are selling thousands of them it costs more to collect that tax than they would receive

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by wallace_f on Sunday March 12, 2017 @10:31PM (#13854809)
>if you make $400 selling vintage cabbage patch dolls on eBay?

This hurts my head to think about. According to CNN, 20% of large corporations pay almost nothing in corporate taxes.[1]

1 - http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/13/pf/taxes/gao-corporate-taxes...

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by YokoZar on Sunday March 12, 2017 @10:44PM (#13854876)
And if you incorporated your ebay business, it would likely pay very little in taxes too. But then you'd take the same income as wages and pay the same income taxes you did before you had a legal title on your business.
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by krashidov on Monday March 13, 2017 @01:41AM (#13855493)
But couldn't you keep that money in a bank account and spend it on 'business expenses' without paying yourself a wage?
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by rahkiin on Monday March 13, 2017 @04:38AM (#13856146)
At least in the Netherlands, that is not allowed. With an LLC you have to give yourself a living wage. Also, if you mark them as profit (not pay them to your employee (yourself)) you have to pay corporate tax. You also can't just deduct your breakfast.
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by chongli on Monday March 13, 2017 @06:20AM (#13856550)
What if you share your breakfast with your spouse who also happens to be an employee? Then breakfast is actually a meeting!
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by tracker1 on Monday March 13, 2017 @04:20AM (#13856082)
In fairness most corporations shouldn't be paying taxes... their investors and customers do though. Also, corporations shouldn't have legal "personhood" or rights to invest in political agendas either. Also, corporate owned property that is unutilized or underutilized should probably be subject to forfeiture for better use.

But that's because I feel that corporations should be mostly about collective ownership and protection from direct liability. It shouldn't be a carte blance.

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by wallace_f on Monday March 13, 2017 @04:51AM (#13856212)
Well, whether or not corporate income taxation is a good thing or not is up for debate, and it has to do with your own politics. However, I think it's crazy that we have it written in law that corporations should pay income tax, but there's enough lawyers and loopholes that 1/5 of them don't. Meanwhile making some side-cash on ebay could possibly garner attention from the IRS..? It's a misalignment of incentives.
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by tracker1 on Monday March 13, 2017 @02:03PM (#13860536)
A VAT and tax on currency exchanges instead of income taxes would probably work out better all around... But that would be a huge shift. But in general, corporations serve as collective ownership and have dividends, labor, and other purchases and expenses. These can/should be taxed.. but income tax on a corporation is kind of counter-intuitive to me, only because a "corporation" doesn't actually pay tax, it's their customers. It doesn't come from, or go to nowhere.
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by rtpg on Monday March 13, 2017 @12:57AM (#13855339)
Just because you got money from eBay instead of a jobby-job doesn't not make it income. I think there's exceptions on this sort of stuff, though.
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by paulddraper on Monday March 13, 2017 @12:08AM (#13855168)
> you can file it for free online if you make under a certain amount.

Plus, tons of third-parties will file returns for free, even ones more complicated than 1040ez.

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by LoonyBalloony on Monday March 13, 2017 @02:56AM (#13855761)
> even ones more complicated than 1040ez.

Could you list any of these websites or PM me please?

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by paulddraper on Monday March 13, 2017 @11:40AM (#13858742)
I worked for the company that runs www.taxhawk.com and www.freetaxusa.com

List of supported forms, including 1040: https://www.taxhawk.com/eligibility.jsp

They don't do everything, but they certainly go beyond 1040EZ. Federal filing is free. They charge for federal extensions and state returns.

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by LoonyBalloony on Tuesday March 14, 2017 @04:32AM (#13865931)
Thank you very much. :)
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by kevin_thibedeau on Sunday March 12, 2017 @11:06PM (#13854948)
Just fill out the PDF and mail it in. Free no matter how much you make. They have been saveable for some years now so you can use them as records.
Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by vlunkr on Sunday March 12, 2017 @10:49PM (#13854896)
> don't need or want the subsidy.

That's hilarious.

Re:How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing ... by isolli on Monday March 13, 2017 @04:51AM (#13856214)
I have filed in four countries in my lifetime: US, UK, France, and Germany. No matter how you put it, the US is the worst in terms of complexity. Even people on a regular salary use assistance to avoid making mistakes.