I completely agree, and was halfway through writing a similar comment when I saw your post.

I actively make choices for things like transit and food which reduce how much I have to think about tipping. I don't like having to judge someone's service, and decide how much it's appropriate to tip them based on some unwritten societal rule.

The signal that hiding tips away sends is "the service provider is being compensated already", and if you want to make an extra effort to pay them more you can, but it's not required of you.

I'm absolutely in favor of Uber/Lift charging whatever is necessary to pay their drivers properly. Similarly, I love no-tip restaurants which pay their servers and kitchen staff living wages.

> I don't like having to judge someone's service, and decide how much it's appropriate to tip them based on some unwritten societal rule

I use neither Uber nor Lyft, so may wrong here, but don't both services strongly encourage passengers to rate drivers based on the quality of the ride?

Why is it awkward to judge someone based on a tip, but not on attribution of stars?

I didn't say the rating wasn't also awkward. Though that's sort or convenient in its way, once you understand its unwritten social rule, since that boils it down to me just having to make a snap decision of "was this ride bad enough that I want this driver to get fired? If so... 4 stars."

(Yes, I think the 1-5 star rating scheme has its own notable flaws based on how Uber seems to use it.)

> I'm absolutely in favor of Uber/Lift charging whatever is necessary to pay their drivers properly.

Ok, great, but they don't, so the practical effect of your stand against tipping is less money for these drivers.

And why? Because you find it socially awkward? That's why it's better to have it in the app. You just get out of the car and it drives away. Then you select the tip in the app. Way better than Uber's system of "hand the driver some ones."

> The signal that hiding tips away sends is "the service provider is being compensated already", and if you want to make an extra effort to pay them more you can, but it's not required of you.

I agree that's the signal, but that doesn't mean it's true.

> I agree that's the signal, but that doesn't mean it's true.

Eh, public transit it is, then.

Not that this is a sacrifice for me. I also hate how chatty most Uber/Lyft drivers are, so I rarely use them anyway.

Cool, I use public transit heavily (subway and buses) and I'm a fan.

But when a driver goes above and beyond, it feels good to tip. One driver offered me water and a towel when it was too hot. He genuinely gave a shit about me and lyft made tipping easy. I found lyft's customer service better.

Honesty lyft's pink branding and mustache logo gives off a fun and underdog vibe. Not many companies go for pink. Their 50% female executive represention probably plays a role.

Uber on the other hand with black/silver gives off a very strong corporate "we're gonna fuck you over if you don't play by our rules" vibe.

This are emotional arguments but that's what branding is all about.

>But when a driver goes above and beyond, it feels good to tip. One driver offered me water and a towel when it was too hot. He genuinely gave a shit about me and lyft made tipping easy. I found lyft's customer service better.

Other people's livelihoods shouldn't depend on your sense of generosity. When I go above and beyond at my job I get a pat on the back and satisfaction of doing a good job. I don't do good work out of mercenary sensibilities.

Thank you. Just pay a reasonable wage and don't have them rely on begging for tips. Encouraging tipping is basically saying "We don't pay our workers enough so you, consumer, must make up the difference, or feel bad when you don't."

I was discussing this with a driver who drives for both Lyft and Uber. His basic stance was that tipping was a difference in kind for tipping, rather than amount, so the living wage argument may not hold. Uber tips tend to be in cash, which is appealing, and may be larger because drunks just hand over twenties, but are rarer, while Lyft tips are more reliable.

I've never understood why tipping, specifically when it is completely optional, threatens people or turns them off. If you don't tip a Lyft driver, they aren't going to give you a dirty look or treat you any differently, especially since you get to rate them on their service.

You can complain that people should be paid a fair wage, but they aren't. I wish for many things, such as the end of warfare, but I accept the current reality that I live in and that I don't care enough about tipping to dedicate time and energy to affect its change. I'm not going to go out of my way to change some business's wage policy. It's sub-optimal, but what isn't? Humans are terrible at setting the correct prices for goods and services. The market does not provide either for a number of reasons (eg we don't take externalities into account, love to socialize losses and privatize gains without getting caught, etc.) It's been this way for longer than I've been alive and has shown no signs of abating.

If it bothers you that there is an OPTION to tip in an app, there's some insecurity there for a reason. Honestly, I like the system. I tip well at bars. As a result, bartenders will occasionally give me free drinks, engage in meaningful conversations, or just really go out of their way for me.

To me, it's fairly obvious that it can be stressful having to choose between a number of options in cases where the social expectations are unclear. It's partly for this same reason other situations can be stressful, like first dates, job interviews, encounters with police, discussing bad news, etc.

Now, I don't think that's sufficient to say that all tipping is to be avoided, but I certainly understand the urge to avoid it, ceteris parabus.

> bartenders will occasionally give me free drinks

Isn't this just the bartender stealing from his employer? Did he use your tip to buy the alcohol?

...or is the bartender building marketshare?

Don't drivers also rate their passengers?

I really don't understand what the issue is with tipping. I am American and I love the custom. I feel being able to pay directly the person I have received a service from is very powerful. I think it does incentivise a better work ethic and it's a very social way of affording a middle class income. Now states that reduce the minimum wage for tip workers, that's evil (I live in California).

There are many issues with tipping

This article and the research behind it

http://www.esquire.com/food-drink/restaurants/a23132/why-tip...

3. The percentage basis makes no sense.

4. Better service doesn't actually beget better tips.

5. It perpetuates racism and sexism.

6. It rewards arbitrary people.

If you go out and eat a fantastic piece of food do you think the person who should be rewarded is:

* The person who actually made the food.

* The person who carried it to your table.

When you go out and eat a fantastic piece of food, how often do you speak with the chef and compliment him?

FYI in most jurisdictions the tip is shared by both wait and kitchen staff, by law.

People are cheapskates and get uncomfortable when confronting that reality so they want to blame the system instead of looking at themselves

Couldn't agree more. It's THE reason I use Uber, instead of lift. Tipping has gotten out of control in this country. It's supposed to be reserved for when someone performs an exceptional service, not to subsidize their wage.

This sounds an awful lot like "I'm taking advantage of the assumption of tipping to avoid paying a fair price for the services I receive."

You're making an assumption (and a false one) that I have a problem paying a fair wage. That couldn't be further from the truth.

I would gladly pay 15% more for a service, if I knew that the tip was included.

My problem with tipping is that it's become unclear when to tip, and when not to tip.

You tip you server, ok. You tip the bus boy at the hotel, ok. You tip your hair stylist, ok. You tip your Uber driver? huh, ok... Tip the guy who just made you a smoothie? Tip your starbucks barista? Tip the bus driver?

Nobody can clearly define when to tip, and when not to. It's entirely arbitrary, which is a horrible system to begin with. Never mind the fact that employers should pay fair wages to begin with. The fact that anyone DEPENDS on tips to get by, seems like the employer passing the buck.

Mr. Pink, just cough in your goddamn buck like everybody else.

> If the drivers aren't making enough from base fares then the fares need to go up - it's not my job to be a charity

The way I view it, I've already gotten a discounted cab ride thanks to the VCs. So the very least I can do in my fortunate situation is share a dollar or two for the guy who drove me home at 3am.

It's a dollar; you folks making six-figures are really gonna hold out against a person who drove you across town just 'cause you disagree with the currently (broken) system?

As I posted in another thread: it's really sad that the crazy state of tipping in the US makes people think like this.

I want to have the option to tip for exceptional service or if I really enjoyed taking to the driver, but I do not want to feel obliged to, which is the issue currently with the low wages.

You have cash in your pocket.

Why give money when you can give "stars"?

So people use Uber because it costs less to ride and because it does not allow tipping idea being that companies should pay more. This is a sound logic.