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Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by nvarsj on Thursday February 02, 2017 @03:44AM (#13549058)
This is very true in London, unfortunately. Cars destroy the city - both by polluting it, and making walking and biking dangerous. Boris Johnson's goal as mayor was to optimise traffic flow through London, which just encouraged more cars. Going to a city like Cambridge where the center is shut down to cars is quite eye opening - lots of kids and people walking and biking. In London it's just a sea of cars driving and parked on sidewalks so you can't actually walk anywhere safely.

Case in point: my daughter had a very near miss when she was about 2. She was walking down the side walk a bit in front of me, and this middle aged lady in a Range Rover went onto the sidewalk to get around a stopped car, barely missing my daughter. I yelled at her but she didn't even notice in her sound proof SUV.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by ciaranm on Thursday February 02, 2017 @05:24AM (#13549476)
I make a point of banging on any vehicle that's nearly hit someone and not noticed/acknowledged it - regardless of whether it was me they nearly hit or not.

People get mad (especially people driving vans/small trucks), but it's disgraceful that people are driving multi-tonne vehicles and are completely oblivious to their surroundings.

I'm glad your daughter is ok.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by de_Selby on Thursday February 02, 2017 @08:41AM (#13550391)
As a cyclist it happens all the time, it goes something like this:

1) A car comes within centimeters of side swiping me and knocking me down. They don't even notice I'm there.

2) They stop at the next traffic light, I tap on the window to tell them to be more careful.

3) They get angry at me.

4) Other drivers see this interaction and soon you see articles in newspapers complaining about "militant cyclists"

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by redditmigrant on Thursday February 02, 2017 @01:25PM (#13553017)
As a pedestrian in SF, I feel a lot more threatened by cyclists than by cars. The car-pedestrian right of way rules are clearly established, but the pedestrian-cyclist rules, if they exist, seem to be ignored by cyclists. I have numerous times had cyclists bike 2 feet in front of me instead of stopping at a pedestrian crossing. I am not sure cyclists in SF grok the idea of a stop sign either. Same thing with traffic lights, which a lot of cyclists treat as mere suggestions.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by monocasa on Thursday February 02, 2017 @10:17AM (#13551047)
I mean, around me the made a law that you can't be within 3 feet of a cyclist. After that passed there was a group of cyclists going around with yardsticks trying to smack cars while riding.

Pretending that there aren't extremely toxic cyclists doesn't help the problem.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by brewdad on Thursday February 02, 2017 @10:37AM (#13551205)
I LOVE this idea. Don't want your precious car scratched, then give 3 feet. My street has no sidewalks and cars constantly exceeding the 25mph limit. I'm pretty sure I could damage some vehicles doing nothing more than holding my house keys sideways in my hands as I walk/run. Drivers truly don't care about anything outside their windshield.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by monocasa on Thursday February 02, 2017 @11:17AM (#13551638)
They were actively riding into lanes and hitting cars.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by eots on Thursday February 02, 2017 @10:45AM (#13551297)
Cyclists will often ride between rows of cars that are stopped at a traffic light in an effort to get to the front, probably assuming that the 3 feet law doesn't apply in that case.

Cyclists don't have to be toxic for the whole setup to not work, they just have to not obey the same laws that are in place for cars. Where I live, I'm more likely to be hit by a cyclist on a pedestrian crossing than by a car.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by monodeldiablo on Thursday February 02, 2017 @01:05PM (#13552816)
What a strange double standard. Presuming your anecdote is true (and statistically, it isn't), your greatest risk is minor injury if hit by a cyclist, while that's the best possible outcome from an interaction with a car.

And no, cyclists don't often ride between lines of cars. Some cyclists do that. Just like some drivers are reckless jerks.

Every group has bad actors. I'd even wager both groups -- cyclists and drivers -- have the same percentage of morons.

You seem to be claiming that all cyclists have to be saints "for the setup to work", which is bizarre. The rules in most cities in the US clearly prioritize cars over people. As plenty of other cities around the world have demonstrated, changing those priorities changes behavior.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by redditmigrant on Thursday February 02, 2017 @01:30PM (#13553071)
In SF, I see cyclists jumping traffic lights, ignoring STOP signs, not giving right of way to pedestrians in the cross walk etc. etc.. In my anecdotal experience I see more cyclists breaking traffic laws everyday than cars. I havent felt the same way in other American or European cities, so its possible this is an SF only thing.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by cparker15 on Thursday February 02, 2017 @02:45PM (#13553857)
From my experience, it's all too common in Boston, too. Zero regard for traffic signs, lights, or pedestrian activity. It's usually the couriers that ride unsafely.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by eru on Thursday February 02, 2017 @12:45PM (#13552595)
In London riding to the front is actually encouraged, if I understand local traffic mores right. (And it seems like the sensible thing in any case.)
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by ciaranm on Thursday February 02, 2017 @09:59AM (#13550914)
Yes, this is mostly my experience as well. I had a delivery truck driver get out and start yelling abuse because I banged on the back of his vehicle to alert him that he nearly knocked a woman off her bike a couple days ago.

This isn't rare, either - there's at least 1 shouted interacted per week.

It's no wonder my friends are afraid to get on the roads/their bikes.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by mrloop on Thursday February 02, 2017 @11:05AM (#13551494)
Ha, I remember knocking on the rear windscreen of a car as it passed me by, I was doing about 20mph, the car not much faster, I didn't even need to stretch my arm to do so. The driver pull over further down the street and I had a conversion with him very calmly, he wasn't happy about me knocking on the window and told me that if he was younger he'd punch my lights out.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by bluejekyll on Thursday February 02, 2017 @10:38AM (#13551216)
I used to do this all the time as well, and then I started noticing that it only increased the rage that I felt and also the rage in the other drivers. It finally came to a head when a car tried to run me down between multiple lights.

My new form of riding in the city is to be 100% defensive all the time, but not in a give up my rights as a cyclist way. I assume cars will do dumb things (because they always do) so I avoid their blind spots, never pass on the right, alsways take the entire lane so that a car can not pass you if it's not safe (only do this in the city), when traffic is slow assume cars will jump quickly around in lanes etc.

Many people get angry and defensive when you yell at or reprimand them. The goal is to try and inform them of their poor driving without increasing anger on both sides. Now I do this with a look, and no anger, and people tend to respond to that apologetically.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by jdavis703 on Thursday February 02, 2017 @04:48PM (#13555037)
Any vehicle that is close enough for me to touch I hit. There's no reason to drive that close to a human being who doesn't have hundreds of pounds of armor around them.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by wj on Thursday February 02, 2017 @06:59AM (#13549892)
I did that when I was nearly hit in a marked crosswalk (they didn't slow down and were less than arm's length from me) that was at an intersection with no light. They went around the block to come back and start threatening me for hitting their car...
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by mironathetin on Thursday February 02, 2017 @08:32AM (#13550346)
"This is very true in London, unfortunately ..."

I admire the Dutch. They use the bicycle everywhere and in all weather conditions. The result? Their cities even sound so different. It is calm, very little car noise. Amazing.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by _benedict on Thursday February 02, 2017 @08:48AM (#13550426)
Dangerous as a pedestrian though - especially if you aren't used to it!
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by mironathetin on Thursday February 02, 2017 @09:10AM (#13550558)
yes, I wanted to add that remark as well, especially because the topic is about kids. But I didn't.

And of course bicycles are far less dangerous than any car. So there is no reason to complain or criticise this great achievement.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by _benedict on Thursday February 02, 2017 @09:44AM (#13550806)
Yes, it wasn't meant so much as a criticism as a caveat.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by gjjrfcbugxbhf on Friday February 03, 2017 @01:07AM (#13558071)
It is a bullshit caveat. Bikes are orders of magnitude less dangerous than cars for children.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by d4rti on Thursday February 02, 2017 @09:34AM (#13550728)
The kids ride bikes too.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by kittiepryde on Thursday February 02, 2017 @06:58AM (#13549886)
I am the USA, in like a suburb-ish area. And uh.. Cars on sidewalks? Is that common in London? How did that become a thing? It sounds super dangerous.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by _benedict on Thursday February 02, 2017 @08:53AM (#13550454)
It's not as bad as the parent suggests, but our roads are much smaller than in the US, so on residential streets it is common to have only a single effective lane even if residents park on the pavement (as we call sidewalks). So to stop completely blocking traffic flow, this is what happens. There's typically plenty of room still on the pavement to walk in this scenario, so I've no idea why they're complaining. It's never been an issue in my entire life living here.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by Cerium on Thursday February 02, 2017 @09:54AM (#13550882)
Depending on the city, it's a thing in China. Some areas will have so many cars and scooters parked on the sidewalk that everyone walks in the street.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by balabaster on Thursday February 02, 2017 @08:58AM (#13550484)
It's an every day occurrence in London unfortunately. People park on sidewalks, cars parked down both sides of narrow streets with no room for cars to pass in opposite directions, you have to pull into gaps between parked cars to allow head on traffic to pass. In some places there you only have inches on either wing mirror to even pass through. If you've never been to London, you can't begin to appreciate the width of your roads here in North America.

In places where you have 20 mph zones because you feel like you can't physically get 2 cars past each other in North America, not only do you have traffic flow in both directions, the speed limit is 10 mph faster and everyone is still speeding.

There are places where if you don't park on the sidewalk, there isn't enough space on the actual roadway for traffic to pass... so people park on the sidewalk because "where else am I gonna park?"

This is everyday life in London, and people rarely even give it a second thought or bat an eyelid until someone gets hit, and then there's outrage for a day or two and then everyone shrugs and say "that's just the way it is" and goes back to their everyday lives.

Is this crazy? I guess it is, but that's London... and every other old world town in the country. Streets were built long before there were cars, houses line both sides of streets and so the roads can't be widened without knocking down hundreds or in the occasional place thousands of years of history. We take our heritage more seriously than our need for wider roads.

We all greatly over estimate our ability to drive and we all think we're the next World Rally Championship champion - because we all drive stick. None of those shitty automatics you North Americans love. When we drive, we want to drive, not cruise luxuriously on our floating cloud, cut off from the feeling of the road by soft suspension.

So imagine cars dashing through tight streets, with no room for two way traffic - even though it's a 2 way street, other cars parked close on either side, almost grazing your wing mirrors as you whip through and your only thought is I hope nothing comes the other way, the last place I could've let them pass was 400m back and I'd have to back up this bastard all the way back to there to let them pass.

Ironically, you have one of 2 states when you're driving on the circular road around London, our M25 motorway (that's what we call highways in the UK, motorways). You're either whipping along at 90mph (the speed limit is 70mph) 15ft from the bumper of the guy in front of you and the guy behind you 15ft from your bumper... all the way around the M25, or someone's had an accident and you're crawling along at 20mph wondering if you're ever going to get home. The 3 lanes of the motorway much of the way around is narrower than your 2 lane highways here.

The first time you ever drive in this kind of environment you feel one of two feelings - either trepidation, anxiety and nausea, or a level of indescribable exhilaration.

That's what driving in England is like. It's like an extreme sport compared to driving in North America.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by justaman on Thursday February 02, 2017 @10:10AM (#13550990)
I visited Ireland last year as a Wisconsinite..... being driven around the Northern Irish countryside was terrifying. Also everyone parks on the sidewalk, and its completely impractical to own a truck because the roads are about half the size of American roads..
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by balabaster on Thursday February 02, 2017 @10:30AM (#13551147)
As an American in London, or in fact pretty much any town or city in England, I'd wager you'd feel much the same way.

A little secret though, we already know you guys feel this way, and we take that into consideration when we drive you... we add a little extra excitement to the drive, you know, because we know you guys are addicted to drama :D

We know you're already uncomfortable because you feel like you're on the wrong side of the car and on the wrong side of the road, exposed and white knuckling it, so we just like to send you home with a little something to remember us by... that time you took your life in your own hands by getting in the car with a crazy Brit and lived to tell the tale ;)

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by Cerium on Thursday February 02, 2017 @09:59AM (#13550911)
The Irish are just as crazy, they pass busses at highway (should I say motorway?) speeds on what I would call a one lane road. The busses suck together when they pass. It's terrifying.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by balabaster on Thursday February 02, 2017 @11:16AM (#13551620)
We grew up in this environment though; and just like you guys are desensitized to the media hype of which country you're bombing next for their resources (heck your national anthem even celebrates that insanity - bombs bursting in air indeed!), we (for the most part) don't even think about how dangerous our roads are... we just accept that and find a way to enjoy it.

Every country has its own behaviour that shocks and horrifies the rest of the world. Britains roads, drivers and completely topless Page 3 girls in mainstream newspapers that even our kids can leaf through are ours. I guess we'd rather die at high speed in our own car in a land we own where our kids grow up with a healthy appreciation of breasts than be desensitized to the rape and pillage of foreign lands for their wealth ;)

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by gunnyguy121 on Thursday February 02, 2017 @01:46PM (#13553226)
You realize "bombs bursting in air" is a reference to the British bombing us
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by balabaster on Thursday February 02, 2017 @01:48PM (#13553245)
I did, lol

You may have missed the tone of the rest of my post which should have implied a tongue in cheek mood... you'll have to forgive how dry our humour is, something else that is uniquely British ;)

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by thrownblown on Thursday February 02, 2017 @10:06AM (#13550962)
you need to start a СтопХам[0] UK Chapter because, in free-market Russia, pedestrians park on you.

[0]https://www.youtube.com/user/Lomak1581

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by purity_resigns on Thursday February 02, 2017 @07:20AM (#13550011)
I've ended up on a sidewalk turning with snow on the ground. If the sidewalks are the round kinds it seems like that'd be especially easy.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by eru on Thursday February 02, 2017 @12:43PM (#13552569)
You complain about London---and I just moved from Sydney to London and enjoy the relative pedestrian-friendliness here compared to that car-centric hellhole down-under.