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Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by jasode on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @06:35AM (#13529690)
>, pay cash upon arrival.

Paying cash is a non-starter. I haven't been to a bank ATM in over 10 years. I don't even know what my card's secret PIN is to make a cash withdrawal. Being virtually cashless by using credit-cards for everything is very common in professional circles.

A credit-card is simpler and the exact line-item amount showing up on my monthly statement helps me keep track of travel expenses. (Also, many credit cards transactions will download to the Quicken ledger for people that use that personal finance software.)

Paying by credit also helps keep drivers accountable and reduces fraud.

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by antonioevans on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:00AM (#13529809)
That is a first world problem. Majority of the the world does not have a credit card or real access to a card. Majority of world pays with cash. A statement like this is similar to when I see American abroad and shocked that places don't take Amex for purchases. It's a very first world thing to even own an Amex let alone use it for a small purchases below $50.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by jasode on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:21AM (#13529900)
>That is a first world problem.

But owning a smartphone with a touch screen (instead of tin cans connected by a string) and having the luxury of choosing between Uber vs LibreTaxi (instead of waving your arms on the street to hail a taxi) is also a 1st world problem. If we're discussing percentage of world market, 51%+ do not have combined attributes of (1) smartphone ownership[1] + (2) Uber availability + (3) preference for paying cash.

For customers, one of the key attractions to Uber is that drivers can't play the game of "oh sorry my credit card reader is broken, you'll have to pay cash". In other words, many customers deliberately choose Uber as way of not having to pay cash. (This point is more relevant in Uber-USA and not Uber-India that allows cash payment.)

The developer name I see on the LibreTaxi page is "Roman Pushkin, San Francisco, California" and since he's based in a 1st-world location, it seems like the Uber-vs-LibreTaxi has relevance to cashless people like me. If he intends for the service to be used mostly by 3rd-world countries where cash is king, I misunderstood the point of the Uber vs LibreTaxi comparison.

EDIT ADD 40-minutes later: I found author's comment on the intended market of customers: "Just started http://libretaxi.org - uber alternative for communities and remote regions." : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13328052

also see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13530355: "Uber, a company evaluated at $60B, will unlikely go to remote Siberian region where I was born."

Conclusion: LibreTaxi isn't really a competitor to Uber -- it's more of an alternative to remote villages having no ride sharing at all and therefore cash payments makes perfect sense for that market.

[1]https://www.statista.com/statistics/203734/global-smartphone...

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by tshawkins on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:40AM (#13529996)
Errrh, i live in the Philippines, it has 80 million people on very low incomes, and yet it has one of the highest penetrations of android smartphones per head than most all other countries. You can get a quadcore 16GB android smartphone here for $30-40US, and they have a fantastic prepay system here where peopl can send credit to each other via the phone, such that it has become a virtual currency in its own right. https://www.globe.com.ph/help/share-a-load https://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prAP41533516

Since that article prices for smartphones have tumbled again. I bought a smartphone, quadcore, 4GB, built in TV, Built in radio for P1,700 (about $34) Its a cheap phone, but it works fine. http://ph.priceprice.com/MyPhone-my81-DTV-17896/

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by lmm on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:52AM (#13530076)
Sounds like jasode's point stands - anyone who has access to a smartphone also has access to non-cash means of payment.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by sirtaj on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @08:20AM (#13530258)
As an example: India has 700 million mobile phone users, of which around 300 million are estimated to be smartphone users. Number of credit card users are around 20 million. the vast majority of "non-cash" payments would be done at some shop that will take cash and perform a digital payment or transfer for you.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by mcjiggerlog on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:02AM (#13530560)
Actually yes that's super common in a lot of countries.

In Vietnam it's the norm to have a smartphone but it's seriously difficult to get hold of a normal debit/credit card.

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by TuringNYC on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:46AM (#13530925)
Not all systems in developing countries develop at the same speed. Some systems lag due to regulations, culture, etc. Other systems manage to leap-frog a generation.

I've been in Qatar for business. Coming from the US, it is shocking. Some systems have leapfrogged -- e.g., ease of banking, 2FA, mobile phone plans, messaging, ride-hailing apps, etc.

Other systems lag -- the most egregious example being the lack of a national address system. Correct -- i have no home address. Half the country does not -- people send GPS coordinates and WhatsApp location pindrops for ride-hailing and food delivery.

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by adevine on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:13AM (#13530640)
Places like Kenya have been leading the world in mobile payments.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by StavrosK on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:29AM (#13530779)
Which you can use for this service as well.

s/cash/peer-to-peer/

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by anigbrowl on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @12:46PM (#13533081)
A non-starter for you. Lots of other people like cash. Absent the need to make a profit, the app may gain traction by serving them. I don't find cash that convenient but I like using it, because I value privacy as much as I value convenience.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by k-mcgrady on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @06:12PM (#13536350)
>> "I haven't been to a bank ATM in over 10 years."

I'm curious how this is possible or if you're exaggerating. I live in London, so a pretty well connected city, and although I can use card/contactless almost everywhere I still need cash about once a week as some small places won't accept card. 10 years ago I'm sure cash was much more necessary.

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by jasode on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @06:36PM (#13536532)
In America, my only need for cash is to leave tips for the hotel maid. But those amounts are $1 bills and the ATM machine only spits out $20. So every 2 or 3 months, I write a check for $100 (payee is "cash"), give it to the teller and she gives me back a stack of one-dollar bills. If I stay at a corporate apartment, I don't even need the $1 bills.

That bank interaction is obviously too cumbersome to withdraw $80+ every week to pay cash for taxis. If all taxis refused to take credit card then yes, I'd have to use the ATM on a regular basis.

You're right that cashless was only possible recently. Even though credit-cards had been around for 50+ years, most people couldn't go 100% cashless because many places like McDonald's fast food only took cash. Those restaurants avoided credit transactions because having customers wait for the charge receipt and then sign their name clogged up the queue with impatient people. However, a recent revolution in payment processing allowed "no signature" transactions for small amounts under a threshold (say $20). The "no signature" includes not having to electronically sign the touch pad -- it isn't just avoiding paper and pen. With that change, McDonald's started accepting credit cards in 2002. People also might notice that when they pay by credit card at Starbucks, they don't have to sign anything. Credit transactions are now so fast, the situation is reversed: cashiers take longer to count out exact change for cash transactions than let customers pay by credit card!

The "no sign" revolution helped make lots of the "cash only" places disappear so now it's very easy to be credit-card only.

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by k-mcgrady on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @03:37AM (#13539303)
Interesting, thanks for explaining. The bit I find most curious is writing the cheque. To me that seems more antiquated than using cash as I've never even owned a cheque book (although I understand it's still common in America to use them).
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by mschuster91 on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:11AM (#13529861)
> Paying cash is a non-starter.

That certainly depends on the country. Good luck living cashless in Europe, especially in Germany where virtually no small store, food vendor etc. has a CC reader.

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by exDM69 on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:30AM (#13529944)
There are huge differences in Europe.

In Scandinavia you can pay with credit card almost everywhere, starting from a food truck at a festival. They'll have a tablet and a credit card reader connected. Some places don't take cash at all.

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by lagadu on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @02:33PM (#13534364)
Varies wildly: come a few km northwards to Denmark and you'll easily go on for months without seeing a single banknote while living here. Hell in the past couple years I've withdrawn euros many more times than I did dkk because of trips to Germany: I need it far more often there than anywhere else in western and southern Europe. It's incredibly annoying.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by pimterry on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:21AM (#13529897)
Really? That's pretty surprising - I live in Barcelona, and I use cards 99% of the time, and in the UK it was even easier. Even taxis here have card machines, and every small shop definitely does. The only holdouts are the occasional tiny old wine bar here and there, but even most of them have moved with the times.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by schlowmo on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @08:04AM (#13530155)
Unfortunately I didn't find more actual stats, but there is a report from Deutsche Bundesbank (German Federal Bank) from 2014 which states that in 2014 the share of cash payments in Germany was 79.1% and only 1.3% credit card transactions.[0, page 27] If I remember correctly, there is no other European country with such a low percentage of credit card transactions.

[0] https://www.bundesbank.de/Redaktion/EN/Downloads/Publication... [PDF]

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by lorenzhs on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @10:12AM (#13531151)
The relevant page is 31 (pdf-page 33), containing a figure "Share of payment instruments broken down into various transaction amount categories in 2014, 2011 and 2008". In particular, 96% of transactions below 5€ were in cash, and 90% for transactions between 5 and 20€.

A breakdown by age group is on page 33. Unsurprisingly, young people pay by card more often than older people.

Various other figure breaking down card/cash usage along different lines are on the subsequent pages. Poorer people use cash for a larger percentage of their transactions than richer people.

Page 63 breaks down usage by occasion/purpose of payment (gas/restaurant/retail/...).

Lastly, 97% of Germans have a girocard (debit card), but only 1 in 3 have a credit card.

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by fauigerzigerk on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @10:29AM (#13531309)
Barcelona may be special within Spain because it's such a huge tourist destination. This statistic (from Mastercard) says that only 16% of payments are cashless in Spain: http://www.mastercardadvisors.com/_assets/pdf/MasterCardAdvi...

Singapore, Netherlands, France and Sweden are way ahead (~60%). I'm a bit surprised that the US is only 45% cashless.

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by lars_francke on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:27AM (#13530762)
I totally agree.

And relevant to the actual topic: Even in big cities like Hamburg or Berlin it is not guaranteed that you can pay by card in a taxi. So I ask every time I enter one whether they accept credit cards or not. I would say 80% of my cab rides are paid in cash.

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by lmm on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:53AM (#13530089)
Depends on rural vs urban, and I suspect it would be the same in Germany. In London I can live cashless easily. When I went to the west highlands I had to start carrying cash.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by lorenzhs on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @08:00AM (#13530129)
Nope. Good luck paying by card at a bakery or in a bar. The canteen where we eat at work is cash-only, too. Cash is still very popular in Germany.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by dclowd9901 on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @08:05AM (#13530159)
I went to small towns and big cities there and the only cash I paid was for tolls. Where specifically are you talking about?
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by germanier on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @09:07AM (#13530609)
Are we talking about the same Germany? There are extremely few toll roads (as in: most Germans will never use one in their life) and uniformly across the country, small shops (such as bakeries and food stalls) operate on cash only. Basically mostly national chains take cards, for the rest it's hit and miss.

In other European countries things look different: On the other extreme is Sweden which I visit regularly. I couldn't even tell you how their cash looks like because I haven't used any for a long time.

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by 4ad on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @10:53AM (#13531559)
In Austria almost everybody takes Maestro, but even large stores don't always take Mastercard/Visa.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by jblz on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @10:17AM (#13531202)
+1 To add to this, part of the draw of Uber for me is its ubiquity (& Lyft, but it's less widespread). My consumer experience is maintained in different international & US markets.

I don't have to worry about securing local currency before I can get around -- it just uses my card (which doesn't charge a fee to convert).

I don't have to worry about not being able to explain where I'm trying to go across language barriers or various levels of familiarity with a locale -- the built-in map app works the same way in Paris, London, Prague as it does in San Francisco or Durham. The GPS features keep drivers honest as to routes and adds a (small) sense of security as you know your journey is being tracked in case something goes sideways.

All that said, LibreTaxi looks really promising & I really like the premise behind it. Maybe, some day, I'll not want the tracking features, for example. I hope it takes off!

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by coldpie on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @02:00PM (#13533957)
I use cash as often as possible at small and local businesses, because then they don't have to pay the 3-5% fee to the debit/credit card processing company.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by Aissen on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:25AM (#13529914)
Not having to carry cash is the one main reason those apps work well. Otherwise, just call/hail a cab. Done.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by antonioevans on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @08:02AM (#13530139)
Just was in an uber here in Bogota, drive says (hearsay but heard it before from Uber users) that majority are women, and safety is #1 concern. 1. Drivers of Cabs suck in the city. They drive like race car drivers and always get into accidents. 2. Harassment. Colombia being a very male dominate country women are harassed daily and cabbies are some of worst. 3. Crime. Some cabbies not all will over charge you, literally hold you hostage if you don't pay whatever fee they say (Cartagena doesn't even have meters..it's what ever the gringo price they want to charge at times). I've spent lots of time SEA, SA and some in Africa.. it's not as easy to hail a cab if your female or a foreigner, uber and rideshare systems do alleviate lots of that pain.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by antocv on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @06:46AM (#13529742)
Here we have an alternative payment method

https://byteball.org/

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by computerwizard on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @02:42PM (#13534453)
Byteball is the future.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by a012 on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:44AM (#13530024)
I suppose it's because it takes time to implement credit card transactions securely and properly, and it could increase fare as well. Here in Southeast Asia Malaysian startup Grab have cash only first then added cards years later and just recently.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by ajdlinux on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @07:50AM (#13530061)
It's not particularly hard to interface with an external payment processor like PayPal, Stripe, etc.

The situation in most Asian countries is a bit different from markets like the US or Australia. Here in Australia, I use cash maybe once every two weeks, it's very rare for me to have more than $30-40 in my wallet - I often have no cash at all.

I suspect the real reason here is that credit cards aren't anonymous and are contrary to the ethos of the author here.

Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by em3rgent0rdr on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @03:19PM (#13534802)
You can still pay by credit card, provided that both the driver and passenger agree. There are portable credit card readers that interface with smartphones.
Re:LibreTaxi – A free and open source alternative to Uber an... by mjpuser on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @10:17AM (#13531201)
I see where you are coming from with the cash issue, but in NYC, it's not uncommon to have to pay cash at a store, so many people carry cash.