News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by iplaw on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @10:53AM (#13482375)
Yes. Without a single doubt.

I attended the long-running #1 public school in the nation. The School for the Talented and Gifted Magnet High School in Dallas, TX. The environment fostered creativity and learning. There were no distractions or negative pressures or stressors. Being smart didn't result in being bullied, it resulted in being respected.

Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by imgabe on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @02:13PM (#13484866)
>The environment fostered creativity and learning. There were no distractions or negative pressures or stressors. Being smart didn't result in being bullied, it resulted in being respected.

I think these are great benefits and we should focus on making them available for all students, regardless of whether or not they're "gifted".

Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by shawabawa3 on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @11:16AM (#13482627)
I think there's no doubt that it's a good thing for the students that go to these schools.

The question is whether it's good for society as other schools may suffer

Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by maverick_iceman on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @11:44AM (#13482973)
How is it bad for society for bright students to excel?
Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by habosa on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:26PM (#13483514)
I think the question was what happens to the students who are not labeled as 'bright'? How does their being cast off to a "lower" school affect society in the long run.
Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by InitialLastName on Thursday January 26, 2017 @11:40AM (#13492816)
I can think of a few reasons why we shouldn't optimize purely for the academic achievements of our most talented students: -Less excellent students tend to benefit from having more excellent students in their classes -Even if their academic outlooks are improved, the excellent students are segregated from having to learn how to deal with a wide range of intellectual levels and abilities -I'm not convinced it's really the most efficient way to allocate our educational resources, especially as there's pretty clear evidence that "excellence" in students is correlated to affluence, so we might really just be segregating by class anyway.
Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by lol214365 on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @01:14PM (#13484125)
It reduces social mobility. Charles Murray talks about how there is a trade-off between social mobility and meritocracy due to the heredity of IQ.

In a meritocratic society, the smartest kids go to the best schools, then to the best colleges, then the most elite companies, then likely marry someone from school or work, and then have the smartest kids.

Socioeconomic classes become set due the stability of cognitive function across generations.

Is it ideal to have a cognitively and economically stratified america with a cognitive elite and cognitive under-class?

Is it ideal that this cognitive elite has little to no interaction with the rest of America, and little understanding of how the rest of the country lives?

Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by cloudwizard on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @07:52PM (#13487793)
Cognitive elite or financial elite. The rich get to send their kids to private schools. Smart poor kids get locked into mediocre public schools with reducing standards. Rich parents pass on their wealth at a lower tax rate.

Being smart is not a guarantee of success so we should make it harder so the less intelligent do not suffer any disadvantage.

Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by CodeSheikh on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @11:57AM (#13483130)
How other schools will suffer? Endowments from rich parents? Being rich does not mean your kid is smart and these gifted schools should be very selective to whom they admit.
Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by conjectures on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @01:25PM (#13484250)
> Being rich does not mean your kid is smart

But it does mean you can pay to get them tutored to jump through hoops, and generally push them harder. There's a very strong relationship between wealth and elite college admission for example. Which is down to culture and opportunity as much as gifts and talents.

If being selective means controlling for socioeconomic background when assessing potential - then I'd be more of a cheerleader for it.

Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by whorleater on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @02:21PM (#13484958)
> If being selective means controlling for socioeconomic background when assessing potential

So...affirmative action like in colleges but for earlier forms of education?

Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by iplaw on Thursday January 26, 2017 @12:19AM (#13488964)
I love how you put this.

To be fair, the TAG Magnet did have race-based quotas until very recently. Let's just say that the school is now ... less diverse. Although, the 1% "other", which encompassed all East and West Asian, has now makes up roughly one-third of the enrollment. The former court ordered 33/33/33/1 resulted in rejecting some of the most meritorious students.

Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by erroneousfunk on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @03:58PM (#13486026)
There's a very high correlation between household income and SAT scores: https://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/27/sat-scores-and...
Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by Retra on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @11:49AM (#13483035)
How would other schools suffer?
Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by alistairSH on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:34PM (#13483610)
In the US, much of a school's extracurricular program is funded via PTA, fund-raising, or simply charging extra fees. In this system, the well-to-do parents/families subsidize the others (poor students granted waivers to the various fees, or don't contribute to the PTA monetarily).

Given the strong correlation between academic aptitude and economic success, removing the smart students also remove the wealthy students. The funding model falls apart, and the students who remain get even less extracurricular enrichment.

Granted, we could design programs that mostly avoid the problem. In my county, the gifted high school (Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology) only takes absolutely brilliant students. Many of whom truly fit the "too smart to fit in" stereotype. Across a large county, that still leaves plenty of gifted/wealthy students in the normal schools, which offer a broad selection of AP/IB/dual-enrollment options.

Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by greggman on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:05PM (#13483229)
That's great. I wish we could figure out how to change the culture in general though. Some cultures in the world value smarts. USA culture generally does not
Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by alistairSH on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:37PM (#13483655)
USA culture generally does not [value smarts]

That's a very broad generalization. Yes, there are areas where education is not seen as a positive.

But, looking at trends in our major suburban areas, I think you're way off base. It is increasingly difficult to gain admission to the top state colleges in many areas of the nation because of overwhelming demand. This in turn has led to a massive increase in the number of after-school tutoring programs, math enrichment programs, expansion of AP/honors course availability, etc.

Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by stoic on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @03:14PM (#13485550)
boo TAG go SEM!

Glad to see another Townview graduate representing us well. :)

Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by iplaw on Thursday January 26, 2017 @12:23AM (#13488979)
Even if SEM plays second fiddle, it's the only other legitimate magnet in that building. ;)
Re:Should gifted students go to a separate school? by iplaw on Thursday January 26, 2017 @12:22AM (#13488975)
For sure!