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Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by Inconel on Thursday January 19, 2017 @04:07AM (#13434259)
I never went to college, I'm too dumb, poor, and undisciplined, but whenever I would visit friends at UCI, UCLA, UCR, etc, I would often be shocked at how nice many of the housing and general facilities were. Even the dorms, which I had always imagined as being run down were actually very pleasant. Some of the common facilities were down right luxurious, I imagine some high end resorts would be jealous.

I certainly don't think students should be living and studying in squalor or unsafe conditions but I wonder how much of the increased costs in education are a result of the kind of spending that goes into some of these facilities. Have universities, particularly public universities, always spent this lavishly on their campuses or is this a more recent thing?

And have any studies been done on how much of the increased costs are due to increased administration numbers and nicer buildings?

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by saboot on Thursday January 19, 2017 @04:44AM (#13434427)
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/fancy-dorms-arent-the-m...

"All of those trends add to the cost of college, but not by that much. At most, about a quarter of the increase in college tuition since 2000 can be attributed to rising faculty salaries, improved amenities and administrative bloat. By comparison, the decline in state support accounts for about three-quarters of the rising cost of college."

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by dave_sullivan on Thursday January 19, 2017 @06:06AM (#13434817)
To be fair, that doesn't say anything about the relative efficiency of university spending. It says:

a) they've increased their spending on amenities and salaries by about 25%

b) they're taking in less money than before (apparently they're receiving 3x less money than they are increasing the budget? So budget increase is 25% of extra costs while funding decrease is 75%?)

I suppose it depends what metric we should be judging by. If university generates measurable value for the public (it probably does; having lots of smart people walking around isn't necessarily a bad thing), the next question is "how much money must be spent per unit of said public good?" Of course, no one can really agree on the goal of university or any metrics by which to judge (other than you have to go if you care about your future!), so it's kind of fubar.

I'd be willing to bet that they could get away with spending less money. I've been saying this for a while, but sooner or later student debt will lead to a major re-balancing of balance sheets. I'm a big believer in learning for free via the internet; if you have internet access, you've got everything you need to learn anything and contact anybody. Let the university system die a natural death and let's massively lower the cost and expand the reach of education.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by saboot on Thursday January 19, 2017 @07:25AM (#13435205)
I had a longer response until I read that you are happy to let universities die off. I agree that MOOCs are great for several fields, but everything is not computer science. Even many engineering fields need the physical lab space to get the most impactful learning done. We are seeing many alternatives to universities arise, which are great, but I REALLY don't see how that translates into letting the world's best higher education system decay into disrepair.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by halomru on Thursday January 19, 2017 @07:58AM (#13435368)
Even computer science would suffer from pure online learning: learning to effectively work in groups, and to design and implement software together is a skill that is trained at university. Remote collaboration is entirely different and less applicable. Add to that the loss of any opportunity for lab work for embedded computing.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by cableshaft on Thursday January 19, 2017 @10:30AM (#13436508)
> computer science would suffer... learning to effectively work in groups

At my university, 'working effectively in groups' usually meant one smart kid at the computer in the computer lab doing all the work while 7 other kids swarmed around them and copying what they did as close as possible without triggering the 'plagiarizing' senses of the teacher.

I worked alone (in the same computer lab) so I could actually learn and internalize what I was taught, but I'd look around and that was a common sight.

A university is not required (and in fact, I'd argue that classwork and grades isn't a good structure for it) in order to figure out how to be effective in a group. Working a single job in fast food taught me more about working in a group than any group project at school or the 'Small Group Communications' class I was required to take for my major.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by dave_sullivan on Thursday January 26, 2017 @01:35PM (#13493927)
> everything is not computer science. Even many engineering fields need the physical lab space to get the most impactful learning done. We are seeing many alternatives to universities arise, which are great, but I REALLY don't see how that translates into letting the world's best higher education system decay into disrepair.

Have lab space then, have the government pay for it and schedule times for people who want to use it. Should not be limited to a university's chosen student body; it should be open to anyone that wants to learn.

You get much more than that and it gets superfluous. US universities are superfluous to the point of wastefulness.

I still say defund them and let them figure it out or shut down. But yes, I understand why this sounds extreme, particularly if you don't share my views of college being a super shit deal for most people (and universities--peddling such shit deals and responding to criticism with moral indignation--are no better than timeshare salesmen).

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by tdb7893 on Thursday January 19, 2017 @10:51AM (#13436698)
Also computer science is conceptually pretty easy as most fields go. Many of my friends are aerospace engineers and their classes were just conceptually way more difficult than mine and learning all that through MOOCs without a lot of support and hands on guidance would be prohibitively difficult.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by hprotagonist on Thursday January 19, 2017 @07:57AM (#13435358)
>I'm a big believer in learning for free via the internet; if you have internet access, you've got everything you need to learn anything...

anything, that is, which doesn't need a lab. So much for physics, chemistry, biology, everything that depends on them...

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by mazelife on Thursday January 19, 2017 @08:27AM (#13435566)
...or art and music. Good luck learning to play the violin over the internet.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by dave_sullivan on Thursday January 26, 2017 @01:24PM (#13493824)
How about a regularly meeting "learn to play violin" meetup?

How much does music school cost btw? Probably way more than most violinists make right? Going into debt for education is a crap deal, that's what I'm saying. You can get the same result cheaper.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by cm2012 on Thursday January 19, 2017 @08:36AM (#13435616)
That's actually doable with Youtube.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by mazelife on Thursday January 19, 2017 @08:56AM (#13435739)
It's really not. Intonation, posture, attack, phrasing, proper breathing... technique in general for singing or any instrument cannot be taught without being right there with the student. If you are at all serious about learning to play an instrument, YouTube and MOOCs are not a solution.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by WkndTriathlete on Thursday January 19, 2017 @08:46AM (#13435680)
I think it's a rare person that can effectively teach themselves anything requiring precise motor control without a coach to watch and give feedback.

Doable? Maybe. Effective for the general population? Unlikely.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by mazelife on Thursday January 19, 2017 @09:04AM (#13435799)
I don't believe it's even doable. Could I pick up an instrument and learn to noodle around on it from watching YouTube videos for a few weeks? Possibly, although for some instruments I doubt even that's possible. But to attain basic proficiency, much less the level of mastery required to play at a professional level just isn't possible without someone to show you how and to correct you when you're wrong (and thousands and thousands of hours of practice, of course).
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by rjsw on Thursday January 19, 2017 @09:30AM (#13436004)
I teach myself skiing, I am a qualified coach as well though.

Am self taught at computing too.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by itissid on Thursday January 19, 2017 @07:32AM (#13435236)
> I'm a big believer in learning for free via the internet; if you have internet access.

In many university courses the tuition you pay is to access the network of alumni, faculty. These are(still) vital for Phd to collaborate and MBAs to find work. I am not sure the internet is actually even a partially workable substitute for this important aspect.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by a2tech on Thursday January 19, 2017 @08:23AM (#13435543)
Disclaimer: I work for a large and pretty prestigious University that has been undergoing major work in the last decade to update facilities and add buildings.

Almost all of the building budget has been paid for through our endowment and donations from wealthy families so all the building activity hasn't really touched our bottom line at all. However, year after year the state has cut our funding which has directly led to the rise in tuition. The University already runs as lean as possible with staff-our total compensation is a joke (even factoring in generous retirement bonuses) because of this many years long death by a thousand cuts that the federal and state government has pushed on us. EVERYONE has to justify their jobs every year-and this includes faculty. If a faculty member isn't publishing, teaching, and doing community outreach on behalf of the University they won't be getting tenured.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by ensignavenger on Thursday January 19, 2017 @09:30AM (#13436010)
These endowments and donations might be covering the capitol costs of all this building, but are they also funding operational and maintenance costs?

Also, that money would, in theory, be available for scholarships or other programs if it wasn't being wasted on unnecessary things.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by froindt on Thursday January 19, 2017 @01:23PM (#13438064)
At the University I attend, donors have to give enough for the building and an endowment for ongoing maintenance and operation expenses. A long time ago they were getting these amazing buildings donated, then getting stuck with much higher maintenance costs than the previous billing, or had a lot of extra square footage to heat, cool, and maintain.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by a2tech on Thursday January 19, 2017 @09:53AM (#13436208)
These buildings are replacing elderly buildings/adding capacity so we can serve more students. So the operation/maintenance costs should fall dramatically for the buildings that are being replaced, and new revenue from more students pay for the new buildings maintenance/operations.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by ensignavenger on Thursday January 19, 2017 @02:39PM (#13438811)
But if the building is much 'fancier' than needed, it becomes a lot more to maintain than a simpler design/finish.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by dforrestwilson1 on Thursday January 19, 2017 @09:16AM (#13435887)
If the state is cutting your funding year after year it sounds like they aren't getting a good ROI from the university via well trained employees or prospering companies? What state are we talking about if you don't mind?
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by a2tech on Thursday January 19, 2017 @09:21AM (#13435928)
The state is cutting all education funding bit by bit. Its a problem nationwide-and the worst part is that here in Michigan its not even 'that bad' compared to other states. Public universities across the country are struggling. Its become so bad that there has been talk about our University giving up its public status and going private. It'd free us from a lot of state rules and the funding from the state has gotten so minimal that the loss of it isn't the deciding factor any longer about going private.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by GFK_of_xmaspast on Thursday January 19, 2017 @11:26AM (#13436993)
States don't cut funding to colleges because of careful consideration of the empirical evidence, they cut funding to colleges because of ideology.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by roymurdock on Thursday January 19, 2017 @11:21AM (#13436939)
Harvard publishes an annual balance sheet [1] and its a good read to get a sense of elite tier university revenue and cost structures. Its net worth is $42B in 2016, down from $44B last year due to very poor returns in the public equity and natural resources portion of its endowment investment portfolio, run by Harvard Management Company.

---

Total operating revenues in 2016 were $4.8B (up 6%):

- $1.7B endowment disbursement (36% of revenues, up 7%)

- $1.0B tuition/room/board revenue (21% of revenues, up 7%)

- $0.6B federal funding (11% of revenues, up 3%)

- $0.3B non-federal funding (5% of revenues, up 9%)

- $0.4B donations for 2016 use (9% of revenues)

- $0.8B other revenue (17% of revenues)

---

Total operating costs in 2016 were $4.7B (up 5%):

- $2.3B in salaries and wages (50% of costs, up 6%)

- $2.0B in services, space & occupancy, depreciation, equipment (42% of costs)

- $0.2B in interest payments (5% of costs)

- $0.1B in scholarships (3 % of costs)

Harvard used 4% of its endowment to fund operations, up 7% from 2015. In normal years, the endowment fund would see returns that would cover the 4% withdrawal, but in 2016 the fund lost $626m for a -2.0% investment return (3% below benchmark of +1.0%). Real estate returned +13.8%, but public equity returned -10.2% (4.1% below benchmark) and natural resources returned -10.2% (11.6% below benchmark).

Over 50% of the real estate investment portfolio is "direct investment" - the actual purchase and management of property, as opposed to indirect investment in real estate funds. This direct investment returned 20.2% in 2016, probably one of the most lucrative asset classes for HMC. You can be sure that the university will be making a lot more land purchases in the Cambridge area in the near future...

---

This is all to say that purchasing real estate is a huge source of returns for colleges like Harvard, and that building facilities and updating old ones will continue as colleges look to increase the value of their purchased land. Salaries and wages at 50% of cost seem slightly high for a largely human asset-based company (compare with 48% for Facebook, 46% for HCA Holdings the largest hospital conglomerate) and will probably continue to be trimmed if returns on the rest of the endowment portfolio don't increase.

[1] http://finance.harvard.edu/files/fad/files/harvard_ar_11_120...

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by edent on Thursday January 19, 2017 @06:36AM (#13434969)
Because paying customers demand better services. In the UK, I went to university in the first year that students were charged direct tuition fees.

My dorm was modelled on a Swedish prison, had a single plug socket per room, and two toilets between 20 of us. The kitchen was barely big enough for 6 people, and couldn't support more than 4 people cooking at once.

That wretched hall was demolished and replaced by something a lot nicer - because when students are paying thousands of pounds per year, they expect something a little more salubrious for their cash.

The same was true of teaching. I remember a bunch of us complaining about the poor quality of lectures from one particular professor. The head of our department was genuinely shocked when I said "I don't think I'm receiving value for money". Students were now expecting a guarantee of quality for the debt they accumulated.

Better facilities cost money - but capitalism demands that students (as rational consumers) should seek value for money. If you have a choice between UCLA and NYU - it makes sense for your to spend your money on something that is attractive to you.

A truly rational student might forgo comfort in exchange for excellent teaching. But I suspect the majority will spend their money on something which looks nice, rather than is actually effective.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by skywhopper on Thursday January 19, 2017 @07:58AM (#13435371)
This is an excellent point. When you go deep into debt to go to college, you want the experience to be as nice as possible. Not to mention that as states push their public colleges and universities to be more businesslike and rely more on tuition, they are doing so, by making themselves more appealing to a broader range of customers.

The flip side of this is that student loans are guaranteed by the federal government, and when tuition goes up, so does loan availability. If financing is guaranteed no matter the cost, then no one should be shocked when customers lose their price sensitivity.

It's also important to keep in mind that the graduates coming out of college in the time period mentioned have entered the most challenging job market for new job seekers in 70 years. It's hardly fair to expect them to be able to live up to promises they made in the mid 2000s when everyone running the economy promised it was in great shape, while those same people were building the house of cards that collapsed on the millenial generation. There's lots of blame to go around, but very little of it should land on the students who took out these loans.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by GiorgioG on Thursday January 19, 2017 @09:05AM (#13435803)
> When you go deep into debt to go to college, you want the experience to be as nice as possible.

What you want and what you can afford can be two very different things. Just because you can get a big loan does not mean you can afford it. For myself, the purpose of going to college was to get a piece of paper to get my first software development job. I didn't care if the college looked nice, offered all sorts of amenities, etc. I went to a local state university and commuted.

Too many people have been brainwashed into going college for the non-education part of the 'college experience' without understanding the long-term implications of coming out of school with an enormous debt load. Continuing to allow 17-21 year old kids to sign up for these loans is just a scam.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by ac29 on Thursday January 19, 2017 @11:25AM (#13436980)
> The flip side of this is that student loans are guaranteed by the federal government, and when tuition goes up, so does loan availability. If financing is guaranteed no matter the cost, then no one should be shocked when customers lose their price sensitivity.

This is not true. Federal student loans have an annual cap and overall cap, anything above that has to be financed with private student loans, which are not guaranteed by the government and have much higher interest rates. They are generally co-signed for by a parent, who is on the hook if the student cant pay.

edit: this is further broken down into subsidized and unsubsidized loans (the former the government pays the interest on while you are in school, the latter they dont): https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsid...

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by funkyy on Thursday January 19, 2017 @07:26AM (#13435208)
Let's not fall into the extremes. We can have nice, cheap dorm. Either prison-like dorm, or all inclusive Spanish coast dorm should be not a standard.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by mseebach on Thursday January 19, 2017 @08:59AM (#13435760)
That doesn't explain how the cost of tuition has risen a lot faster than the cost of most other goods and services that people also pay for and demand (and receive) good quality of. Also, it assumes a previous state of not paying for the services which did not exist in the US in the same way it did in the UK.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by evgen on Thursday January 19, 2017 @09:07AM (#13435817)
In the US most students at public universities have never paid for most of the services they receive, the state has paid for the bulk of their university education. For the past decade or two the states have been slashing university funding left and right. This is why tuition costs have been rising.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by kristianc on Thursday January 19, 2017 @04:14AM (#13434288)
In the U.K. certainly we have the problem certainly that developers are building 'luxury' student accommodation to serve wealthy foreign students - with universities then outsourcing their accommodation to them.

Part of this is economics. It's easy to build and subsidize accommodation knowing that you can make the subsidy back on private hire conference guests if you're an Oxford or Cambridge. Less so if you're Bath or Coventry.

Students who used to have reasonable, subsidized accommodation now have a choice between the relatively unregulated and unsubsidized private rental market and these overpriced palaces with flat screen TVs etc.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by pjc50 on Thursday January 19, 2017 @05:39AM (#13434695)
> with flat screen TVs

All TVs are flatscreen. The TV license costs more than a TV.

I'm sure the new student accomodation is overpriced, but that's market effects not the presence of TVs. The real culprit is the government trying to run universities as profit centres. The policy isn't "joined-up": we're probably going to see further crackdowns on student visas at the same time as European funding is withdrawn. I'm waiting for the first redbrick university to go bankrupt..

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by SixSigma on Thursday January 19, 2017 @07:55AM (#13435350)
At my University they spun off their accommodation, which is perfectly adequate, into a separate company. Then the private sector came in and built slightly better accommodation and charge slightly more. The town is filling up with student accommodation and we're entering the Pork Cycle [1] as rooms go unfilled. The spun-off housing suffering worst of all, and without money to invest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_cycle

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by GFK_of_xmaspast on Thursday January 19, 2017 @11:27AM (#13437005)
> flat screen TVs

When was the last time you saw a CRT?

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by kristianc on Thursday January 19, 2017 @11:31AM (#13437040)
My room at uni certainly didn't come pre-equipped with a TV of any kind.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by RA_Fisher on Thursday January 19, 2017 @04:56AM (#13434484)
They are resorts. Louisiana State University where I went is prototypical. The easy way to see this is the case is to compare undergrad housing facilities with immigrant family housing. Guess which one is dilapidated on American campuses?
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by ourmandave on Thursday January 19, 2017 @06:48AM (#13435032)
Well, there's these stats.

The highest-paid public employee in 39 US states is either a football or men's basketball coach

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-states-highest-paid-public...

But it doesn't say how much their salaries are compared to the overall budget or how much the team facilities cost.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by samsolomon on Thursday January 19, 2017 @07:07AM (#13435115)
That is not surprising at all. I think it probably should be the case.

Football at any SEC school or basketball at Duke generate a significant amount of money for the school—sometimes in the hundreds of millions. This revenue may subsidizes other sports programs entirely.

http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/the-5-most-valuable-college...

If schools want to generate revenue from their sports programs, then winning is very important. What's the key to winning? Hiring the best coaches.

Edit: There is a Forbes article with more information and teams, I just hate linking to Forbes.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by kalleboo on Thursday January 19, 2017 @08:01AM (#13435396)
And as people continue cutting the cord and ESPN will actually have to start charging what people will pay for sports coverage, that money will disappear.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by devwastaken on Thursday January 19, 2017 @08:56AM (#13435741)
>I would often be shocked at how nice many of the housing and general facilities were.

UMD would like to disagree. The facilities look nice on the outside, but on the inside they just stick two students into a space smaller than the average apartment living room. Bathrooms are floor shared, no kitchen appliances, laundry is in another building. No AC. $700 per-student. The commercial housing right next to the college, which is the highest cost/quality in the area, is $1400 for two bedroom, bathroom, kitchen, balcony, a full gym, pool, laundry, its a nice living.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by bryanlarsen on Thursday January 19, 2017 @06:32AM (#13434944)
IIRC, studies show that the quality of the facilities has a massively outsized impact on school choice for students. Students should be choosing based on quality of education and cost, but both of these metrics are difficult to fully understand and internalize for the average 18 year old. But nice facilities are easy to see and judge.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by manarth on Thursday January 19, 2017 @07:28AM (#13435220)

  nice facilities are easy to see and judge.
And (in theory) this would make a good proxy for judging the other aspects: if the university has pride in providing good quality accommodation for their students, than you could assume that they provide similarly good quality education, library services, etc.

There is also an argument that the accommodation has a direct impact on students' education: if students are worrying about dodgy landlords, ongoing issues with heating or mould or leaking pipes, then they'd lose potential study-time in having to address the issues, have less mental capacity to channel to their education, and have an environment less suited to studying.

So good quality accommodation is a net asset for educational services, but in some places the cost is substantially higher than the private-sector rental market.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by nicholas73 on Thursday January 19, 2017 @05:58AM (#13434781)
UC tuition is still very low compared to most colleges, and I actually thought they charged too much for campus housing for what you could get renting in the area (like paying single room price for a double room). Their meal plans are also a profit center for them too.
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by lordnacho on Thursday January 19, 2017 @06:31AM (#13434940)
This is quite surprising to me. I studied in the UK, and for three years my room was literally in a disused brothel. I kid you not, it was a rumour when I went there, and it turned up on Wikipedia one day. Not an unhealthy room, no mould or leaks, but nothing like a hotel room. The college actually owned a hotel, so I guess they could have decked it out that way, but they were sensible not to spend money where it wasn't needed.

My brother's just finished at Columbia, and he was living in a slum apartment in NYC. Not nice at all.

Has someone got pics of these amazing college facilities?

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by manarth on Thursday January 19, 2017 @07:42AM (#13435276)

  I studied in the UK
When was this? The accommodation in The Young Ones [1] isn't too far a cry from the sorts of student accommodation you'd find in the 80s and 90s, and a disused brothel would fit right into that picture.

It seems to me (anecdata), that shortly after tuition fees were introduced (1998/1999), the trend for better (and correspondingly more expensive) student accommodation began, kicking off development of purpose-build accommodation.

There's some interesting numbers in a real-estate report from GVA [2], which shows a reduction in university-owned student halls, and an increase in privately-owned purpose-built student halls.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Young_Ones_(TV_series)

[2] http://www.gva.co.uk/research/student-housing-market-overvie... [PDF]

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by lordnacho on Friday January 20, 2017 @04:42AM (#13442613)
Turn of the millenium.

Some of my friends in London were indeed living like in The Young Ones.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by kalleboo on Thursday January 19, 2017 @08:05AM (#13435420)
It's always seemed weird to me how in some countries the student housing is actually owned and run by the university. I studied in Sweden where there was student housing run by a non-profit foundation (cheaply priced and well-maintained, they renovated it my second year there). Some people chose to live in the student housing, others chose to live in private or public housing. Many stayed with their parents to save on costs (I commuted by bus+train for 45 minutes a day until I scored a student housing room).
Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by DigitalJack on Thursday January 19, 2017 @08:29AM (#13435571)
"until I scored a student housing room"

Is there a waiting list?

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by widforss on Thursday January 19, 2017 @09:00AM (#13435767)
That's how you get to rent anything at all in Sweden. Every company has their own waiting list that you sign up for. You get one point per day you're on the list.

When you are interested in an apartment you apply for it, and if you are the one with most points you get it. It's all very structured.

Re:Student Debt Payback Far Worse Than Believed by kalleboo on Thursday January 19, 2017 @10:26AM (#13436456)
Yes. Priority is given to people who live further away. Since I lived within commuting distance, it took 3 months for me to get a room.