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Re:Affordable Care by nodesocket on Friday January 13, 2017 @03:27PM (#13394405)
I posted a ASK HN[1] a few days ago related to signing up for health care through CoveredCA as a single bootstrapped founder.

If you're self employed and make over $50,000 a year no matter where in California you live, you'll have to pay full retail premium prices without any discount. My company as a whole makes over 50k a year, but less than 100k a year (still getting off the ground). Thus a monthly premium of $460 a month for a standard decent PPO plan puts a large burden on me. Additionally, if I don't get health coverage I'll have to pay a heavy tax penalty at the end of the year. Essentially as a bootstrapped small business owner, health insurance is a large burden of cost and I was forgotten in the Affordable Care Act. Instead my cost to purchase a plan skyrocketed as I subsidy other people's care. That is not fair, everybody is not paying their fair share. Middle class self employed are the one's who got hurt the most.

Finally go compare CoveredCA.com and then go use https://www.blueshieldca.com. CoveredCA literally is one of the worst designed and functioning apps I've ever seen. It constantly errors and doesn't keep state that I am logged in. The UI/UX is terrible. I'm guessing CoveredCA was outsourced to a non-technically competent contractor overseas. Compare that to BlueOfCalifornia which is a great site, beautifully designed, and functions as it should. This is why government can't have nice things.

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353755

Re:Affordable Care by jnwatson on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:04PM (#13394694)
$460 a month is a fantastic rate.

Between my employer and myself, we pay $1806 a month for my family of 3. My employer has 3000 employees, so it isn't a weird situation with poor purchasing power.

Insurance is expensive.

Re:Affordable Care by cmurf on Friday January 13, 2017 @05:03PM (#13395133)
For someone making less than $100K, $460 a month is not fantastic, and $1800 for a family of 3 likewise total income less than $100K is an obscenity. I wouldn't pay these amounts for a car, why should I consider it reasonable to pay this much for health care? Insurance did not used to be this expensive. This is a product that's losing its usefulness compared to the cost.

And it's wrong to call this insurance. It's not insurance, it's a health care payment plan.

Before ACA I was paying 1/3 the price, and had 1/4 the deductible. These higher rates are basically a tax to subsidize others, which is fine in principle, I just don't like the idea that this is going largely to a massive for-profit private bureaucracy. My problem with ACA is the private insurance industry is shit, and ACA made the expansion of shit mandatory. It should have been single payer, destroy the perversion that is the private insurance industry who have lobbied for all the anti-competitive behaviors they engage in to ensure near monopoly status in the vast majority of counties in the country. But the political capital just wasn't there to see how treacherous the insurance industry has been.

I don't see how the next round of politicians actually fix this though. Preexisting conditions are made feasible by mandates, mandates are made feasible with subsidies, subsidies are made feasible by some people paying more under mandate. So you can't take away any single one of those without the whole system unraveling entirely. Even the insurance companies have said this. They just don't want to say it loud enough that the blowhard in chief gives them a tweetirade.

Re:Affordable Care by guyzero on Friday January 13, 2017 @05:21PM (#13395283)
The US has the highest healthcare costs in the world. There's simply no escape in the US unless the government steps in a regulates medical fees like the rest of the western world.
Re:Affordable Care by e40 on Friday January 13, 2017 @05:54PM (#13395523)
This a million times!!

The US is the only modern country without cost controls. Providers set prices and insurance companies do little other than pass those costs onto consumers.

When will we get cost controls? Likely never. It's very anti-capitalism to restrain free trade. (Yes, there's some sarcasm there. This issue pisses me off.)

Re:Affordable Care by bduerst on Friday January 13, 2017 @06:35PM (#13395744)
There are cost controls! It's usually the maximum that insurance companies or Medicare are willing to pay.

Until we treat healthcare like we treat our regional monopolies (electricity, education, etc.) the the government won't be able to set prices lower.

Re:Affordable Care by e40 on Saturday January 14, 2017 @10:04AM (#13398663)
There are no cost controls like other nations have. Japan has a single book that details the costs of all medicines and procedures. It is agreed to by both sides, under threat that the government will step in if there is no agreement.

This is what we need in the US. I should not pay a different price if I have insurance or pay cash. People that pay cash are routinely charged far more than people with insurance.

Re:Affordable Care by bduerst on Tuesday January 17, 2017 @12:22PM (#13419251)
That's misleading. First of all, medicare is set by the government, and healthcare organizations cater service only to what is covered for medicare patients.

Secondly, hospitals charge people with insurance more. Typically if a patient is uninsured and paying cash, the hospital will work out ways to charge them less, because they are personally liable for way more than what insured are. Hospitals still want to get paid, and charging a patient into bankruptcy is not a way to achieve that.

Re:Affordable Care by cmurf on Friday January 13, 2017 @06:19PM (#13395670)
Here's an idea: Democrats agree to any Republican ACA change with a condition that existing insurance company shareholders and bondholders are destroyed and replaced by US citizens as the new shareholders/bondholders inversely proportional to their wealth (not income).

Haha fat chance. But there is the subsidy.

Re:Affordable Care by Animats on Friday January 13, 2017 @05:58PM (#13395546)
The ACA did, though, limit participating insurance companies to making 20% off premiums. If they have a good year and make more, they have to issue refunds. The insurance industry hated that, and the GOP proposes to get rid of that provision.
Re:Affordable Care by tornadoboy55 on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:28PM (#13394839)
And here I thought the Netherlands was expensive.. 100 bucks a month + a 385 deductible. And our level of care is top of the world. Man do I completely un-envy Americans.
Re:Affordable Care by gwright on Friday January 13, 2017 @06:40PM (#13395775)
Without trying to defend or criticize the ACA, I would just say that this is too simplistic of a comparison. How much of your general taxes are redirected towards healthcare, for example?

One of the reasons that the ACA is broken from a financial point of view is that the Democrats didn't want to simply raise general taxes and redistribute to fund the program. Instead they played all sorts of games with the 'individual mandate' to try to force participation without 'raising taxes'. But this is just a way for healthy individuals to avoid participating in the insurance pool -- which is a great way to destroy the actuarial basis of insurance.

It is entirely possible to be for nationalized health care and still think the ACA is structurally unsound and needs to be replaced.

Re:Affordable Care by toomuchtodo on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:10PM (#13394731)
I rescind my gripes about my $1300/month for a family of 3 on an unsubsidized marketplace plan.
Re:Affordable Care by nodesocket on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:25PM (#13394824)
Wow, both of you are paying a lot, I am sorry. Basically your high premium payments are going to pay for other people's care. Not a fair system. Everybody is not paying their share, middle class is though.
Re:Affordable Care by drm237 on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:51PM (#13395024)
You don't know that. You have no idea what kind of health issues their families face. And yes, sometimes you are just paying for other people's care, right up until the time that you need it. That is, after all, the point of insurance.
Re:Affordable Care by beat on Friday January 13, 2017 @05:41PM (#13395453)
For years, I paid much more out in insurance than I would ever spend that year. Last year, I had a $35,000 surgery. Heck, I spent so much on medical care last year that I had a "luxury colonoscopy" in December, because I knew I'd hit my out-of-pocket cap for the year.

That colonoscopy was $6000, btw. This, for preventative care that could save hundreds of thousands of dollars from colon cancer (and quite possibly my life) down the road. In a well designed system, price controls would put preventative care like colonoscopies below actual cost (and make the money up elsewhere), to save money at the macro level.

Re:Affordable Care by yequalsx on Friday January 13, 2017 @05:56PM (#13395532)
I make much more than you and pay more in taxes than you. I'm paying more for national defense, police, roads, etc. I'm subsidizing you. Not a fair system.
Re:Affordable Care by FireBeyond on Friday January 13, 2017 @06:12PM (#13395622)
In Australia, Medicare is 1-1.5% of your income tax.

On the assumption you're making ... $100K a year, this is 20% of your income.

Hard to imagine how it could be done less efficiently. Of course, the issue is then going to be "Say we reduce costs to even 5% of income", "think of the physicians/hospitals/etc"...

Re:Affordable Care by DrScump on Friday January 13, 2017 @09:24PM (#13396486)
Your numbers don't make sense, so maybe there is a typo. Did you mean to say that Medicare is a tax amounting to 1-1.5% of your income, or ???

In the USA, income tax is a marginal rate, while Social Security and Medicare taxes are fixed rate (and therefore regressive).

Re:Affordable Care by FireBeyond on Saturday January 14, 2017 @07:24PM (#13401502)
Correct. Though it's now 2% (I moved to the US a decade ago):

"Medicare gives Australian residents access to health care. It is partly funded by taxpayers who pay a Medicare levy of 2% of their taxable income.

Your Medicare levy is reduced if your taxable income is below a certain threshold. In some cases you may not have to pay the levy at all.

If you don’t have private hospital health insurance, you may have to pay the Medicare levy surcharge (MLS) in addition to the Medicare levy. This depends on your income for MLS purposes."

Re:Affordable Care by bduerst on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:55PM (#13395065)
What I don't get is, what would you do if there wasn't ACA? Not have insurance?

If anything happened you'd be in the emergency room and would either pay outrageous amounts magnitudes more than $460/mo, or declare bankruptcy making your hospital debt a burden for everyone else.

Re:Affordable Care by skizm on Friday January 13, 2017 @03:32PM (#13394445)
Wait, why would they count your company's total revenue as your income? Is there no legal entity between you and your company? (LLC, C-corp, etc.)
Re:Affordable Care by nodesocket on Friday January 13, 2017 @03:34PM (#13394455)
I'm a single founder 100% owner LLC, personal and business income is combined. Plus on CoveregedCA they ask for personal income and self employed income when seeing if you qualify for discounts. Finally, dealing with sending them tax and finance documents to get the discounts would be a huge hassle and I'm almost certain a hair-pulling frustrating experience. By the time that is all done, I'll probably be out of their discount bracket anyway.
Re:Affordable Care by skizm on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:12PM (#13394748)
If you're spending the money on the business, how can they count it as income? Shouldn't only your salary count as income? (which may very well be 0)
Re:Affordable Care by nodesocket on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:28PM (#13394844)
As far as I understand, while I can write off deductibles my personal and business income is combined at the end of the year since I am 100% owner of my California LLC thus giving my inflated annual income.
Re:Affordable Care by drm237 on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:50PM (#13395011)
Your total income that you would report on your personal income tax return should be your personal salary plus your business profit for a single member LLC.
Re:Affordable Care by nodesocket on Friday January 13, 2017 @05:02PM (#13395128)
Correct that is it, any personal income plus the business profit.
Re:Affordable Care by incongruity on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:27PM (#13394836)
Seems like you could fix the business/income side for less than it will cost you in insurance if you don't...
Re:Affordable Care by shams93 on Friday January 13, 2017 @04:53PM (#13395039)
Yeah I feel your pain I'm in the same problem, in an early stage startup making 80% under market rate, barely making my rent and living off ramen, absolutely can't afford ACA.
Re:Affordable Care by cmurf on Friday January 13, 2017 @05:15PM (#13395243)
Medicaid.
Re:Affordable Care by dragonwriter on Friday January 13, 2017 @05:18PM (#13395261)
Even at 80% under market rate living on ramen (presumably, in the Bay Area as a developer), you may be over the income cap for Medicaid.

Of course, choosing to accept work for 80% under market rate in a place where the high market rate for labor drives high cost of living is going to have short-term negative economic consequences.