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Re:Uber Freight by Animats on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @01:20AM (#13261621)
Well, at least they got their US Federal Motor Carrier broker registration and insurance:

    Date: 09/14/2016
    USDOT Number: 2926893 
    Legal Name: UBER FREIGHT LLC
They're not trying to pull their usual "we're a special snowflake beyond regulation" stunt.

Trucking is vulnerable to Uber. "More than 1 million smallish companies own 90 percent of all trucks, each owning about three trucks on average." That lets Uber be the master and the truckers the slaves, as with their taxi service.

Cargomatic claims 1,811,000 miles traveled. They launched in 2014, so that's under a million miles a year. That's nothing. The average delivery truck travels 12,000 miles a year, so, from their own numbers, Cargomatic represents about 80 trucks, total. They may be run over by Uber.

The biggest freight broker is C.H. Robinson Worldwide, net revenue about $2.2bn. They also organize ocean freight and air freight, which Uber isn't likely to get into because the players there are not small.

Freight brokerage is so fragmented that Uber could roll up the industry.

Re:Uber Freight by imglorp on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @10:36AM (#13263687)
Amazon is also wading into this logistics space, so they will be head to head. https://logistics.amazon.com They have a lead; they're already into aviation: http://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/amazon...

It's going to be a spectacular, automated race to the bottom. The losers are going to be the 10 million professional drivers in the old trucking and taxi businesses.

Re:Uber Freight by ecnal on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @11:35AM (#13264075)
>It's going to be a spectacular, automated race to the bottom.

Excellent! More efficient shipping benefits a lot of people. The problem isn't the increase in efficiency — are faster CPUs a race to the bottom because worse chip makers go out of business? — it's poor policy that fails to adequately compensate those who lose from this. We should focus on electing officials and supporting policy to turn these Kaldor-Hicks improvements into Pareto ones.

(I know you're not taking a stance against automation, I just think it's important to stress that the correct response is to make everyone better off by using some of the gains to compensate the losers)

Re:Uber Freight by cashmonkey85 on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @11:17PM (#13268387)
Yea it's amazing people complaining about efficiency and an increase in prosperity. I understand people arguing for the redistribution of wealth but arguing against an increase in prosperity is ludicrous
Re:Uber Freight by Goopplesoft on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @02:45AM (#13261851)
While trying to validate your 12k number (its more likely 65k and thats not long-haul, http://www.afdc.energy.gov/data/10309) I found an interesting data sheet:

http://www.trucking.org/ata%20docs/what%20we%20do/image%20an...

Re:Uber Freight by morganvachon on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @08:30AM (#13263004)
Thank you, that 12k number had me doing a double take. I drive more than that to/from work and around town for groceries and such. I have an old friend who runs a contracted local freight delivery service, he puts about 75k miles per year on his truck just delivering in the metro Atlanta area. His wheels are turning eight to ten hours per day, four or five days a week.
Re:Uber Freight by nateguchi on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @05:59AM (#13262481)
I personally travel 20k miles a year, and that's just to and from work!
Re:Uber Freight by elastic_church on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @12:27PM (#13264455)
> They're not trying to pull their usual "we're a special snowflake beyond regulation" stunt.

Okay you need to understand that laws come with consequences. And if the consequences are not sufficient to deter an action, then the law does not exist.

Uber finds the consequences possible from state governments and smaller administrative authorities to be negligible. This is an accurate assessment generally due to predictable underfunded nature, deficits, lack of case law and lack of political will that these areas have.

The federal government is not any of that and has unlimited resources to ensure compliance. It also provides the benefit of supplanting state law, good across the entire republic and helps with reciprocal agreements in other republics. So there are both adequate consequences for noncompliance and adequate benefits for compliance.

State autonomy has been irrelevant since interstate commerce became the only form of commerce, and most of the time people are just playing along.

Re:Uber Freight by mahyarm on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @04:12AM (#13262127)
Big boat shipping is not going to go automated anytime soon. Boat staff are a relative rounding error in costs from my estimates. There are only 39k of those boats in the world, and they are not going to be electric any time soon unless there is a revolution in battery tech that makes it economical.

Port automation on the other hand, is an opportunity I'm guessing.

Re:Uber Freight by cm2012 on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @04:37AM (#13262217)
Probably 90% of port jobs are automated away compared to 50 years ago.
Re:Uber Freight by Animats on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @01:33PM (#13264954)
Yes. For an extreme example, here's Rotterdam's container port. Zero people in the quay area.[1] This is sped up, but entirely real. Not only are the vehicles driverless, so are the cranes. A few people in a control tower oversee that operation.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm_rlLyelQo

Re:Uber Freight by cm2012 on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @02:39PM (#13265597)
Amazing
Re:Uber Freight by AlgorithmicTime on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @06:38AM (#13262602)
Containerization alone is probably responsible for half of that.
Re:Uber Freight by patch_collector on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @01:25PM (#13264895)
If you want a good read on containerization, I'd really recommend reading 'The Box', a history of shipping containers. For a topic that might sound bland, it's fascinating.

https://www.amazon.com/Box-Shipping-Container-Smaller-Econom...

Re:Uber Freight by thaeli on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @11:45AM (#13264152)
Also, the ship's crew are doing most maintenance underway, which keeps the asset producing value. Pretty much the only maintenance done on cargo ships at a port is stuff that requires a drydock. It's actually cheaper overall to have the maintenance crew ride the ship around the world (and also do the small number of sailing tasks that would be expensive to automate) than it is to take the ship out of service at ports to, say, repaint everything, or change the engine oil.
Re:Uber Freight by protomyth on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @08:27AM (#13262983)
Re:Uber Freight by the_rosentotter on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @07:51AM (#13262789)
The world's largest container ships run with a crew of about seven people.
Re:Uber Freight by bkor on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @08:08AM (#13262889)
Do you have a source for that? I once asked a captain of a 14.000+ TEU vessel if they really only needed the minimum amount of crew. According to him theory and practice are vastly different. Meaning: a news article explaining that a vessel can be run with X amount of people doesn't mean there are only X amount of people on board.

Secondly, there's all kinds of regulations. A container vessel is operated 24/7. If 7 is the amount of people working on it at a time, in practice the crew will be twice that.

In any case, your response lacks a lot. The person you replied to talked about big boat shipping and how it is not going to be automated any time soon. You only account for the crew on a vessel. There's the customers (loads of which still like to send a fax), lots of outdated governments, outdated vendors, other companies, etc.

Re:Uber Freight by the_rosentotter on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @08:57AM (#13263134)
You're right, 'can be run' != 'is run'. According to Wikipedia, the Emma Maersk has a crew of 13:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_M%C3%A6rsk

Still not a lot of fat to cut for a ship with the capacity of a medium size port.

Re:Uber Freight by bkor on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @11:24AM (#13264003)
The captains I asked was a captain for one of Maersk E-class vessels. They don't use the minimal amount. Unfortunately it's been a few years since I asked and I don't remember much of the details, just that the stated minimal crew is not what's on a vessel.
Re:Uber Freight by londons_explore on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @11:27AM (#13264020)
If a ship has no people, it also needs no bridge, control room, bedrooms, kitchen etc. If it has none of that, it needs to water system, toilets, lighting, heating etc.

And with all that gone, you could fit a lot more cargo on the same size boat.

Re:Uber Freight by tptacek on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @11:48AM (#13264163)
Can you express "a lot" as a percentage of existing capacity? Because it seems like, relative to the amount of cargo space these ships already have, that percentage would be pretty small.
Re:Uber Freight by EdHominem on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @07:32PM (#13267519)
By eyeballing an Emma Maersk diagram, I think you could get three more stacks of containers, for ~5% more capacity.
Re:Uber Freight by tptacek on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @08:56PM (#13267868)
Related question: if they wanted 5% more capacity in the Emma Maersk, what kept them from just building it that way? Are the sizes of these ships a fuel and utilization efficiency optimization problem?
Re:Uber Freight by cagataygurturk on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @08:28AM (#13262990)
That's true that newer ships have more automation so crew size reduced dramatically. For example there is no man in machine rooms any more in new ships.

Another thing, crew size would be 3x of needed crew for one shift because in ships there are three shifts, one shift lasts in 8 hours.

(Source: I am originally Naval Architect)

Re:Uber Freight by malka on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @08:32AM (#13263018)
They could be electric by generating their own power, with a nuclear reactor for instance.
Re:Uber Freight by marcosdumay on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @11:29AM (#13264038)
Most people would call those "nuclear". I'm sure you'd find some if you googled them.
Re:Uber Freight by edpichler on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @07:55AM (#13262807)
I think "slaves" is not the best word to use here.
Re:Uber Freight by tomphoolery on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @08:09AM (#13262895)
It's a fitting description, but since Uber workers are paid I suppose a better analogy would be "master/servant".
Re:Uber Freight by lupin_sansei on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @09:33AM (#13263312)
Not being able to quit as you were owned by your master made one a slave. Slaves were often paid to increase motivation.
Re:Uber Freight by 91bananas on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @10:05AM (#13263494)
I think that is the point that is trying to be made. If uber "captures" this industry they will become the "masters" it will be difficult to find work outside their network, giving you no choice but to stay.
Re:Uber Freight by spraak on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @10:47AM (#13263764)
Peasants?
Re:Uber Freight by mylons on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @10:50AM (#13263792)
Serfs is the most accurate
Re:Uber Freight by Animats on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @01:56PM (#13265191)
"Well, I do whatever he tells me to do."

"Where I come from, we call that slavery." - Wonder Woman.

Re:Uber Freight by cornholeconnie on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @08:07AM (#13262879)
It's ok. It's just a word.
Re:Uber Freight by neximo64 on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @02:20AM (#13261767)
The stunts are to get press headlines. Fortunately trucking and freight are a bit too boring for the ordinary consumer to relate to.

Their customers, corporations guarding themselves against risk want every checkbox checked and rechecked twice. That's why its no surprise they're not pulling off stunts here.

Re:Uber Freight by jonwachob91 on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @12:33PM (#13264501)
Too boring for the ordinary consumer, yes. Too boring for an investment banker weighing what price to purchase the stock at in an IPO, no.

Depending on how they do the accounting for this it could be huge gains to the top line, something much needed to validate a $60bn valuation in the public markets.

Re:Uber Freight by Entangled on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @08:39AM (#13263056)
> They also organize ocean freight and air freight, which Uber isn't likely to get into…

…yet

Re:Uber Freight by elif on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @02:12AM (#13261730)
1,000,000 / 1,200 = 833.3
Re:Uber Freight by tsomctl on Tuesday December 27, 2016 @02:16AM (#13261755)
1,000,000 / 12,000 = 83.3