News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Getting Rid of Comments on Vice.com by caseysoftware on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @02:22PM (#13223008)
Considering how much of the media was shocked SHOCKED by Brexit, the election of Trump, Sarkozy's loss, the fall of Merkel, and the rise of Le Pen, maybe they should pay more attention to the comments..
Re:Getting Rid of Comments on Vice.com by thinkloop on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @03:18PM (#13223537)
Those were shocking events. Scientific polls, liquid prediction markets and experts, all predicted different outcomes. It would have been irresponsible to take different positions.

Either the tools we have to measure these things are inadequate, and must be improved. People simply changed their minds as the events drew near. Or we happened to hit the underdog outcomes (80% chance of Hillary is still 1 in 5 for Trump).

None gets solved by polling trolls.

Re:Getting Rid of Comments on Vice.com by wutbrodo on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @04:16PM (#13224092)
> Either the tools we have to measure these things are inadequate, and must be improved.

I think that's the kind of point he's getting at. Dismissing people entirely as not relevant because their conversational norms differ from yours is the kind of things that leads to shocking events. This doesn't imply you should feel any more positively or negatively about these people, just that their comments may add explanatory power to your model of the world. When reality doesn't match your model, don't blame reality.

Re:Getting Rid of Comments on Vice.com by zigzigzag on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @06:42PM (#13225437)
And the polls, markets and experts were all wrong. Apparently they aren't so scientific, liquid or expert after all.

Actually, a few journalists who spent serious time hitting the streets outside London concluded that Brexit would win or at least was quite likely, just by talking to people. They were largely ignored because they weren't "experts", just people talking to other people. John Harris being an example of that.

Re:Getting Rid of Comments on Vice.com by forgottenpass on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @10:46AM (#13229960)
>Those were shocking events. Scientific polls, liquid prediction markets and experts, all predicted different outcomes. It would have been irresponsible to take different positions.

Those were not shocking events. People wanted a prediction with more confidence than those sources of prediction were able to provide. Faced with the hard limitations of existing predictive tools, people that should damn well know better started listening when they found someone to tell them "Nate Silver has Trump at 25%" really meant "Hillary will win."

It would not have been irresponsible to account for the possibility of the less likely but still possible outcome. In fact it would be irresponsible to NOT be prepared for it.

>Either the tools we have to measure these things are inadequate, and must be improved.

We're never going to be able to predict the future with total accuracy. The question is how we want to face them limitations of that accuracy. People who don't take "no" for an answer will read too much into unreliable predictions and attempt to rebuild systems for more predictable results regardless of externalities. The question should be how we adapt to that reality.

Re:Getting Rid of Comments on Vice.com by Chris2048 on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @05:59AM (#13228213)
Scientific polls have participation and subjectivity flaws, 'expert' opinion begs the question.

No one addresses the obvious weaknesses, they just say "this is the best we have", but then act with confidence in the predictions, rather than admit we don't know.

Re:Getting Rid of Comments on Vice.com by tonyedgecombe on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @03:22PM (#13223576)
The media were not SHOCKED, they expressed shock in an attempt to get more attention/views.
Re:Getting Rid of Comments on Vice.com by brennen on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @03:57PM (#13223882)
I really haven't seen much evidence that media professionals expressing shock at, for example, Brexit and Trump's election are engaged in some strong form of deception. There's a reasonable set of critiques about media incentives and behavior here, but I think this is a case where cynicism of this kind can obscure observable reality: The majority of people really didn't expect these outcomes.
Re:Getting Rid of Comments on Vice.com by reality_czech on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @07:25PM (#13225695)
The point is that the media were in a bubble where everyone they talked to had the same views as themselves.
Re:Getting Rid of Comments on Vice.com by ilugaslifg on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @08:09PM (#13225950)
That is absolutely a true thing you can say about the media and the election. They came to believe that Trump would not win the election, by being in a bubble where everyone they talked to had the same views as themselves.

But that is a totally different point than, and is actually logically incompatible with, the assertion that they privately believed that Trump _would_ win the election, but expressed otherwise to the public.

Re:Getting Rid of Comments on Vice.com by reality_czech on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @10:24PM (#13226582)
OK, that's fair. I think that most of the media believed that Clinton would win. It was actually quite creepy seeing all the glowing tributes to her life, and upcoming presidency. I still have a special commemorative edition of Newsweek from November 8, 2016, celebrating "Hillary Clinton's Historic Journey to the White House." I think I am going to keep this for a while.
Re:Getting Rid of Comments on Vice.com by ilugaslifg on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @03:42PM (#13223719)
As much as I would normally support this kind of cynicism, in the particular case of Trump's election, the media were as genuinely shocked as everyone else. Opponents and supporters, informed and not.

Almost nobody thought that was seriously going to happen. To claim otherwise is edgy revisionism.

Can't comment on the others, as I was not following closely enough beforehand to get any reading on the public zeitgiest.

Re:Getting Rid of Comments on Vice.com by kuschku on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @02:34PM (#13223143)
The "fall" of Merkel? You mean, she went from approval rates of 74% to about 50%?
Re:Getting Rid of Comments on Vice.com by rokosbasilisk on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @04:01PM (#13223922)
Probably in reference to the reversal of hijabs and beginning of her reversing some immigration policies.