> Firefox Developer Edition's existence is a contradiction
It isn't a contradiction. The only devtools that are in FDE but not in Stable are experimental ones that are on the path to stabilization. It's a testbed, not an enclave.
Re:Firebug lives on in Firefox DevTools
by carussell on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @03:59PM
(#13223906)
I'm not involved with Mozilla anymore, but last I heard, there are things you have to use Developer Edition for that can't be done with vanilla releases (like working on add-ons).
Re:Firebug lives on in Firefox DevTools
by clarkbw on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @06:51PM
(#13225493)
Developer Edition enables a number of features not currently available for regular Firefox. The two major ones are build time features which can't be enabled in other releases (besides Nightly). One build feature is Unsigned Add-ons, which allows for add-on development where it isn't possible otherwise. The other is Async JavaScript callstacks which are very useful to capture but tend to slow down regular browsing otherwise. Besides build features there a lot of prefs we turn on to make development easier. If you try using Chrome or Firefox release with DevTools you will need to do something extra to be able to "paste into the console" (something that prevents people on facebook from owning themselves) and that guard isn't on by default in Developer Edition. [I'm the Product Manger for Firefox DevTools]
Re:Firebug lives on in Firefox DevTools
by carussell on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @09:31PM
(#13226374)
> Unsigned Add-ons, which allows for add-on development where it isn't possible otherwise
It is possible, you've just chosen to disallow it.
To be clear: the Firefox team took deliberate steps to make sure that add-ons can't be tested or developed in the stock builds of Firefox downloaded from Mozilla.
Re:Firebug lives on in Firefox DevTools
by nachtigall on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @06:45AM
(#13228397)
Don't think you're right. You can use FDE for add-ons development, just like parent said.
See your sibling below: > Unsigned addons cannot be enabled on beta or release. That was only available for a limited time. Now they can only be enabled on alpha (aka developer), nightly, or special unbranded builds.
Re:Firebug lives on in Firefox DevTools
by carussell on Wednesday December 21, 2016 @11:48AM
(#13230542)
Please read and understand the entire comment chain you're replying to. I'm well aware that you can use Firefox Developer Edition to develop add-ons. (I'm the one who first mentioned it!)
AFAIK this isn't correct. FDE has some about:config flags set to different defaults than the Stable release, which could mean that a user of Stable might need to flip a switch to allow loading unsigned addons, but there's nothing stopping you from doing so (and addons aren't exactly part of the web platform).
Re:Firebug lives on in Firefox DevTools
by Dylan16807 on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @06:01PM
(#13225130)
Unsigned addons cannot be enabled on beta or release. That was only available for a limited time. Now they can only be enabled on alpha (aka developer), nightly, or special unbranded builds.
You can make a userscript without any of that hassle, though.
I stand corrected!
Re:Firebug lives on in Firefox DevTools
by pbhjpbhj on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @04:53PM
(#13224444)
It's a long way back for my memory but didn't Netscape Navigator have a WYSIWYG editing mode? That would be at the end of last century.
Re:Firebug lives on in Firefox DevTools
by reitanqild on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @05:00PM
(#13224524)
I think it had. It was later spun put as Composer or something.
Re:Firebug lives on in Firefox DevTools
by appleflaxen on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @01:01PM
(#13222244)
> write-only
I think you mean read-only, no?
Re:Firebug lives on in Firefox DevTools
by berdario on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @01:21PM
(#13222443)
No
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write-only_language
in this context it's about having the source code accessible itself, instead of only a binary/bytecode available (or some obfuscated/minified code)
Re:Firebug lives on in Firefox DevTools
by carussell on Tuesday December 20, 2016 @01:47PM
(#13222685)
Good response, but as easy as it would be to pretend that this is what I intended all along, intellectual honesty dictates otherwise. Read-only is what I was thinking at the time I wrote it, but I flubbed the words during revision what with all the double negation happening in that sentence. In the world of inspectors on the modern Web, though, the concept of something being write-only is also strongly relevant.
The ideal that the Web shouldn't be write-only is not new, either—it's been around around since the birth of the Web; Tim Berners Lee included features to publish pages in the first browser, WorldWideWeb. The idea of built-in devtools in Firefox also isn't new.
Firebug's predecessor DOM Inspector was shipping in Mozilla Application Suite and in Firefox up until Firefox 3. For Firefox 3, the team decided that DOM Inspector's utility to the masses didn't justify its costs. Mozilla Corp was a lot smaller then—150 or so employees. It was a common theme at that time to challenge every part of the browser both because of the QA involved and the ideal of shipping a light, focused product was still something that the team was aiming for. The DOM Inspector code was already mostly self-contained, so it was built and released through addons.mozilla.org as an extension.
The main reason the built-in devtools got included in Firefox aren't so much rooted in user-focused principles as it was convenience for the devtools team. Someone might appear in this thread to dispute this (I half expect Rob Campbell to show up), but it's truer than the idealism line. Bundling the new devtools into Firefox gave two advantages for the people working on it:
1. You're automatically given a big install base, i.e., you don't have to convince people to download your extension.
2. Maintaining features as an extension introduces some work that you don't have to deal with if you just shove your code into the mozilla-central codebase. In 2010, extension authoring sucked. If Gecko couldn't do what you needed or browser.js didn't have hooks for you, you just roll those things into the same patch that introduces (or fixes) the feature you're working on.
Fun fact: The number of years that Firefox has shipped with a built-in inspector actually outnumbers the years that it was without one. Firefox 3 was the first release that didn't include DOM Inspector. That was 2008. A couple years later the devtools project was announced, and it was slotted to ship in Firefox 4—which ended up delayed for 6 months or so. (If I recall correctly, devtools either ended up still missing the boat, or it shipped with parts turned off because they weren't mature/stable enough yet and they were reenabled within the next few releases after Firefox had switched to the rolling release cycle.)
EDIT wrt your comment about no distinction between "developers and users": Firefox Developer Edition's existence is a contradiction