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Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by rohannair on Thursday November 24, 2016 @12:46PM (#13031590)
I would expect a site about CSS properties to also know about the performance impacts of paints... Takes a good 5s for everything to load.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by nilliams on Thursday November 24, 2016 @01:10PM (#13031747)
I don't get this complaint. This site is aimed at developers. I think it's safe to assume they're either not viewing this on mobile ever, or are going to come back and visit on desktop/etc if they actually want to use it as a resource for work, so perf is a low priority compared to the content.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by threatofrain on Thursday November 24, 2016 @03:51PM (#13032671)
I'm not viewing the website on mobile, and nor did the people I shared it with, but we all were surprised at the slowness. Of course, as you mention, the quality of the content is enough to cover over the performance issues, but it most certainly detracts from the website.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by nilliams on Thursday November 24, 2016 @04:10PM (#13032781)
Fine, that wasn't the spirit of the original comment I replied to though, which was needlessly negative and lacked any awareness of context.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by scotty79 on Thursday November 24, 2016 @04:31PM (#13032898)
I'm a developer and I just read this whole site on mobile to see if there's anything I don't know. Initial load was clunky, fonts have initially not been showing up but after that it works pretty well on mobile.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by nilliams on Thursday November 24, 2016 @04:34PM (#13032924)
Yep wasn't suggesting it wouldn't work fine on mobile, just addressing the 'perf' criticism which to me, isn't really relevant to most devs when they would tend to use that resource on their dev machines.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by scotty79 on Thursday November 24, 2016 @05:19PM (#13033133)
I nearly closed it when it it loaded this bad and I saw the fonts missing. But scrolled a bit and fonts showed up. So 'perf' criticism is valid because it's so bad on this site that it affected usability for me.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by nilliams on Thursday November 24, 2016 @06:41PM (#13033497)
But you didn't close it? So you're not even one negative datapoint. I don't think any rational dev would close a useful developer resource based on perf reasons.

Again, I'm merely replying to the initial comment which was needlessly negative and frankly a tiring trope on HN (rudely criticising something unimportant about the site regardless of its intended use).

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by tripzilch on Friday November 25, 2016 @06:23PM (#13040629)
Honestly, your going on about it is worse. Sometimes a negative comment just comes out badly. It happens. And even then, taken in good faith, at least it's somewhat constructive. This whole sub-thread of you arguing against people doing exactly that, is off-topic good for nothing ballast. That is a tiring and persistent HN-trope I can really do without.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by nilliams on Monday November 28, 2016 @07:24PM (#13059648)
Just answered each comment as it came, trying to defend a good submission against nonsensical snark.

If you don't like sub-threads I suggest you get an HN-reader than can collapse comments.

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by rhizome on Thursday November 24, 2016 @03:51PM (#13032670)
Developers don't use mobile? Or tablets? Or...performance?

http://imgur.com/a/GiGBY

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by nilliams on Thursday November 24, 2016 @04:06PM (#13032761)
That's not what I said.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by rhizome on Thursday November 24, 2016 @04:13PM (#13032804)
It's not your exact words, but I don't think it's an unfair characterization, if the excuse is simply that they'll be reading it on a desktop machine anyway.

I took that image from a non-laptop desktop machine, by the way.

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by nilliams on Thursday November 24, 2016 @04:24PM (#13032854)
> It's not your exact words, but I don't think it's an unfair characterization

You ignored the half of the sentence following the 'or'. To me, that's unfair.

> if the excuse is [...]

It's not an excuse, it's context.

The performance is a low priority compared to the content, when the site is a developer resource.

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by rhizome on Thursday November 24, 2016 @05:10PM (#13033086)
And for me it speaks to credibility.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by kaishiro on Thursday November 24, 2016 @08:47PM (#13033913)
As another random anecdote from another random developer, I find the site's content far outshines any purported credibility loss - which just seems like a very silly argument to make.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by nilliams on Thursday November 24, 2016 @06:35PM (#13033463)
Perf is not important for a dev resource. If a dev had spent a ton of time optimising that they'd have wasted their time. Why does wasting their time make them more credible?
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by shakna on Friday November 25, 2016 @01:15AM (#13034687)
I disagree.

In many places, perf is still important, and one of the reasons, I believe, that GNU offers its manuals in various formats: [0]

I know of a few devs that work for web, but due to their nations economics, work:

* On a smartphone

* Via a satellite connection

Despite being in a first world country, I've had to do both at various times whilst working from remote areas.

The GNU manuals have a huge wealth of information, but they load fast by following simple-first policies.

caniuse.com is a SPA, but they load damn fast.

I'm not saying that this page is insanely slow, but that it is slow at all is still a surprise.

And not every dev in the world gets to have broadband.

[0] http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by flukus on Friday November 25, 2016 @01:26AM (#13034716)
> The GNU manuals have a huge wealth of information, but they load fast by following simple-first policies.

Do all GNU projects keep there documentation i one big file? I wanted to contribute some recently but got lost in a complex help file.

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by shakna on Friday November 25, 2016 @01:36AM (#13034744)
Most GNU manuals I've seen come as:

* HTML - entirely on one web page.

* HTML - one web page per node.

* HTML compressed (gzipped tar file) - with one web page per node.

* Info document (gzipped tar file).

* ASCII text compressed (gzipped).

* TeX dvi file (gzipped).

* PDF file.

* Texinfo source (gzipped tar file).

If the one big file (great for grepping) was too confusing, you probably want to opt for HTML, with one file per node. For example, the Sockets/Local Namespace page for glibc: [0]

[0] http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Local-Name...

Edit:

And it appears the help files are seperate inside the source code as well. [1]

[1] https://sourceware.org/git/?p=glibc.git;a=tree;f=manual;h=71...

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by flukus on Friday November 25, 2016 @01:42AM (#13034757)
> And it appears the help files are seperate inside the source code as well.

Thanks. It appears that this wasn't the case for make.

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by shakna on Friday November 25, 2016 @01:48AM (#13034776)
Ow. Make's manual is a 10,000 line texi file.

That really sucks.

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by Kiro on Thursday November 24, 2016 @12:54PM (#13031642)
How would they fix that? It's rendering all the examples on one page (like it should) so I understand it takes a long time.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by bryanrasmussen on Thursday November 24, 2016 @01:37PM (#13031955)
Well they could have a list of the properties without them all rendered and then render just the property they need when someone clicks on the property name.

And why should it render all examples on one page?

They could have a static page for every property so one could link to http://cssreference.io/align-content instead of http://cssreference.io/#align-content and get just that static page. That should be pretty quick, especially with long caching of all other resources than the actual page content.

There's lots of different ways to have done it without having to do it all at once.

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by Kiro on Thursday November 24, 2016 @02:25PM (#13032228)
I personally don't like that solution. I want to see everything (on one page) without having to click anything.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by hexasquid on Friday November 25, 2016 @08:00AM (#13036402)
How about both?
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by 91bananas on Friday November 25, 2016 @11:30AM (#13037815)
Then someone would have complained that this site needed JavaScript to handle those click event.

Or, would have complained that it was stupid to actually use an anchor tag to link to god forbid another complete page load.

Or, if they used a javascript framework to make deep links someone would have complained that they used a javascript framework for a static page, or even maybe they used the wrong JavaScript framework.

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by rohannair on Thursday November 24, 2016 @12:56PM (#13031657)
> like it should

No it shouldn't. Split up large chunks if it impacts performance.

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by Kiro on Thursday November 24, 2016 @01:21PM (#13031836)
I think it's much better UX to show everything on one page in this case. You're speaking like this is an application, completely disregarding the purpose.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by prashnts on Thursday November 24, 2016 @01:29PM (#13031890)
I agree that it is fine for a reference site. Though, Virtual elements are possibly a solution where only the current viewport is painted.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by Raphmedia on Thursday November 24, 2016 @12:59PM (#13031682)
The best solution would be to lazy load. If you can only see the first 3 property on page load, there is no gain in having them all load at the same time.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by dom0 on Thursday November 24, 2016 @01:18PM (#13031808)
No it wouldn't, because this means additional delays for anyone that is actually using the site.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by Raphmedia on Thursday November 24, 2016 @01:48PM (#13032036)
Lazy loading done well is invisible for the user. You preload things as users scroll down and when user hover / click on one of the anchors.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by mschuster91 on Thursday November 24, 2016 @01:59PM (#13032099)
That doesn't work for those ctrl+f'ing for a specific property.

I'd probably do a full load for the text, with specifying the height for the examples inline, and then lazy-render the examples once they're visible.

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by scotty79 on Thursday November 24, 2016 @04:50PM (#13033006)
You could have all content just unstyled (apart from sections heights) and enable the style for each section as it comes into view.

The problem with this site is not that it has too much context. Just too much new and crazy styles.

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by Raphmedia on Thursday November 24, 2016 @02:46PM (#13032333)
You would still need all the text to be in the markup for SEO purposes anyway.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by flukus on Friday November 25, 2016 @01:30AM (#13034728)
Like how wikipedia does it? Full content but mostly collapsed.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by jklinger410 on Thursday November 24, 2016 @01:17PM (#13031803)
The page almost crashed my browser and made me not want to use it.

Very lazy on the part of the developer to code it that way.

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by CamperBob2 on Thursday November 24, 2016 @05:50PM (#13033286)
The page almost crashed my browser

Thanks for the report. Hopefully the author will almost fix it.

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by jklinger410 on Thursday November 24, 2016 @11:25PM (#13034400)
My chrome was unresponsive but recovered.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by Kiro on Thursday November 24, 2016 @01:22PM (#13031843)
How would you do it and still view all the properties on one page?
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by scotty79 on Thursday November 24, 2016 @04:55PM (#13033024)
Disable all the styles. Enable the styles just for the sections that are currently visible.

It would require setting section heights to fixed values so you can know which section is visible and enable and disable styles for them without changing the sites height.

Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by jklinger410 on Thursday November 24, 2016 @02:06PM (#13032128)
I wouldn't have the properties on one page.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by Kiro on Thursday November 24, 2016 @02:11PM (#13032156)
Then it's more a matter of taste than laziness. I very much prefer to have them all on a single page.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by jklinger410 on Thursday November 24, 2016 @11:23PM (#13034398)
Except that it loads slowly which hurts the usability so it's not really that I prefer a certain layout but more that I prefer the page to load easily.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by nateberkopec on Thursday November 24, 2016 @02:08PM (#13032136)
Scrolling is giving me ~20fps on my MBP...ouch.
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by fractallyte on Thursday November 24, 2016 @02:58PM (#13032401)
And yet on the native browser on my (underspecced) Jolla phone, scrolling is beautifully smooth...
Re:Show HN: A visual guide to the most popular CSS properties by Angostura on Thursday November 24, 2016 @04:22PM (#13032843)
Really - it's fine here on this old iMac running updated Safari