News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by nailer on Friday November 18, 2016 @10:27AM (#12987355)
Most Windows terminal people use ConEmu rather than the inbuilt terminal apps - it's like iTerm2 vs Terminal.app on MacOS. ConEmu adds Unix style cut and paste, tabs, etc. Add openssh, PSReadLine and PSCX and you've got a proper terminal setup.

Also MS should really improve the inbuilt apps to do this stuff.

Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by nneonneo on Friday November 18, 2016 @11:01AM (#12987638)
I've used iTerm and Terminal on Mac, and the default Windows Terminal (conhost), PuTTY sand MinTTY on Windows.

Terminal.app is much, much better than conhost, even after the Windows 10 update. It's fast, supports a ton of thoughtful features (such as customizable title bars via extended ANSI codes, real line wrapping during resize, good Unicode support from the very beginning, etc.). With Terminal.app I can be quite happy and productive even with someone else's Mac or with the default settings. I've used iTerm2 but their features weren't compelling enough for me, and the iTerm font rendering is noticeably worse in many ways. Apple has also been very good about giving Terminal.app continuous updates.

On Windows though I have almost always had to install MinTTY or something just to get a halfway usable terminal emulator. The default emulator is just so limited - Unicode support is very plug and pray, the title bar is totally locked, and having to use Windows APIs to change text formatting is a pain. Conhost is also amazingly slow when it comes to large amounts of text, so much so that printf can be extremely detrimental to program performance just because it has to wait for the terminal window to catch up.

PowerShell's terminal experience is better but not quite there. And, PS suffers from extremely long load times - I've seen it take upwards of 10 seconds to start without any extensions. That means that in practice I often pop open cmd.exe even if PS is a better choice, just because I don't want to sit through a long load time.

Microsoft really should get their Terminal story in order. I'll definitely try out ConEmu the next time I sit in front of a Windows box, but like you I wish MS would improve their own apps!

Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by brownbat on Friday November 18, 2016 @01:39PM (#12989018)
> good Unicode support from the very beginning

I once started a Chinese character flash card program in Python on Windows.

The yak shaving was unbelievable. I never got a working version, but I learned a lot about code pages, and why "building a console from scratch" is not actually the right answer to "I want to be able to test a toy program I'm making before it's finished."

Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by kevin_thibedeau on Friday November 18, 2016 @07:07PM (#12991081)
Tkinter would have given you a basic Unicode capable GUI without the hassles of the console.
Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by brownbat on Friday November 18, 2016 @07:40PM (#12991227)
Hmm, going back through my old .py files, I ultimately did start using Tkinter... and for some reason thought yaml was really important...

Still, would have been nice to have a program that essentially took in and put out text without learning everything about GUI elements.

I'd never written anything with a GUI before, and "I'd like to see unicode" is a really weird place to dive in.

Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by bitwize on Friday November 18, 2016 @12:05PM (#12988185)
> PowerShell's terminal experience is better but not quite there. And, PS suffers from extremely long load times - I've seen it take upwards of 10 seconds to start without any extensions.

Small price to pay to be able to pipe objects, man!

Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by JeffreySnover on Friday November 18, 2016 @09:03PM (#12991586)
Sorry about that - we lost control of our startup times in PS V3 and have been working to get it back under control. PowerShell V5 had substantial improvements but we keep working on it and V5.1 is even faster. Give it a try - I think you'll like it.

Jeffrey Snover [MSFT]

Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by Bombthecat on Saturday November 19, 2016 @03:16AM (#12992565)
I really hope so!

I basically stopped using ps ( for smaller stuff) because the startup tone is so awful.

Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by nneonneo on Saturday November 19, 2016 @01:42AM (#12992375)
I'm not entirely sure if you're joking or not (one of the hazards of the textual communication medium). Yes, piping objects is fun and occasionally very useful, but waiting ten seconds to pop a terminal so I can run `ipconfig` or something is not so useful.
Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by throwaway7645 on Friday November 18, 2016 @07:19PM (#12991126)
Are you actually able to not be confused by piping objects? In Unix everything is a string so I just pipe text to sort and then unique...etc. PS always complains relentlessly. The GUI features and .NET integration is nice though.
Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by hota_mazi on Friday November 18, 2016 @03:47PM (#12989948)
What drove me away from Terminal.app was the fact that I can't use command-1/2/3 to switch tabs. Ctrl-tab doesn't work either.

Did I miss something?

Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by thebspatrol on Friday November 18, 2016 @03:57PM (#12990012)
CMD + { and CMD + }
Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by hota_mazi on Friday November 18, 2016 @04:48PM (#12990356)
Thanks but... yuck. Any way I can remap these?

Cmd-<number> is a pretty standard way to jump to tabs (and arguably, Ctrl-tab as well).

Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by eridius on Friday November 18, 2016 @07:40PM (#12991216)
⌃⇥ actually does work in Terminal.app. And in fact, ⌃⇥ and ⌃⇧⇥ are the official keyboard shortcuts in the menu, with ⌘{ and ⌘} being undocumented aliases. This is also how Safari works too.
Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by skissane on Friday November 18, 2016 @04:06PM (#12990077)
I wonder why they chose ⌘{ and ⌘} instead of ⌘[ and ⌘]. With the later you don't need to hold down SHIFT (at least on US keyboard layout.)
Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by eridius on Friday November 18, 2016 @07:40PM (#12991224)
Because it's the same keyboard shortcuts that Safari uses, and in Safari ⌘[ and ⌘] navigate the history stack.
Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by scraft on Friday November 18, 2016 @10:37AM (#12987428)
Whilst I am glad to hear about ConEmu; I have to disagree, I use windows cmd.exe very regularly, and know lots of other people that do, and I have never used ConEmu before! I might give it a try now I know about it.
Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by WorldMaker on Friday November 18, 2016 @10:44AM (#12987486)
Cmder is a good configuration bundle for ConEmu and a better place for new users to start.
Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by nailer on Friday November 18, 2016 @10:55AM (#12987593)
Cmder seems cool but it's ConEmu + Clink + git for windows.

- Clink is for cmd what PSReadline is for posh.

- posh-git does what git for windows does (I personally don't like git info in my prompt, so use neither, and have a custom, Unixy-one)

Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by pixelcloud on Friday November 18, 2016 @04:09PM (#12990094)
ConEmu si really nice simply because you can have tabs, split pane and good color schemes. 've never gotten to the level that some people need, so ConEmu + bash = everything I was using on OSX.
Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by UK-AL on Friday November 18, 2016 @11:03AM (#12987654)
I highly recommend ConEmu, I've used it for awhile.
Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by keithnz on Friday November 18, 2016 @03:47PM (#12989950)
con emu makes the linix subsystem shell a lot nicer too, in fact has an inbuilt ubuntu theme that makes most colors sane
Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by pjmlp on Friday November 18, 2016 @11:04AM (#12987660)
I use Windows since version 3.1 and never bothered with it.

Properly configuring cmd.exe was enough for me. Then again I only use the terminal on "as required" basis.

Re:Microsoft Replaces Command Prompt with PowerShell in Late... by gpvos on Friday November 18, 2016 @11:32AM (#12987923)
It has never been stable for me, so I stick with the console, even though I would like to switch to something better.