> dirty rotten mouths of nasty Kremlin bastards
> Heck, the majority of Russians doesn't even bother to learn elementary English!
> Stupid people buy everything Kremlin tells them, including version about protecting Russian citizens from US NSA.
> thanks to backward masses
> P.S. I hope to get rid of toxic Russian citizenship in the future.
I think the only thing toxic here is how you write and view other humans and your fellow countrymen as inferior beings.
I have no Russian heritage, but I lived in rural cities around Russia for a year and was there another 6 months in Moscow after Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia is definitely much different from the Western world and there are a lot of things I disagree with, but I would never call anyone stupid for supporting Putin or the government.
Calling folks stupid and backward for supporting stuff you dont support is just you thinking you are better than everyone else when you are not. Don't be a dick because some people are less fortunate than you and didn't have an opportunity to learn critical thinking. Even people much smarter than you might support what you don't like. The world isn't black and white.
You are in for a rude awakening if you believe that other governments don't lie to their citizens. Whatever government you currently support and get your new citizenship from, you are a pawn and part of the "backward masses" for whatever fucked up scheme that government is cooking up to screw you over.
So in short, the majority asks me to sacrifice myself for their sake because I'm in minority and they are in majority.
If so, f##k them!
The fact that you've left Russia is not making you `special` or `elite`. There are bad and stupid people everywhere, as well as good and smart and awesome people. World is not black and white.
This is why the US government was set up with various undemocratic features. This is why there are things like constitutions that require supermajorities to modify.
Protecting minorities from the tyranny of the majority is one of the main purposes of good governmenance.
Democracy screws folks over very easily.
In a free society, the rule of the people is only one of the pillars of freedom. Other pillars include the rule of law, certain inalienable rights, etc. Without these, the rule of the people descend into majoritianism or ochlocracy.
The textbook example of ochlocracy is the French Revolution between the Insurrection of 10 August 1792 and the Thermidorian Reaction.
Eh, might be toxic. Might be a natural human response to seeing the majority of his countrymen accept propaganda without question. You don't know this guy. For me his comment read more like a frustrated individual than someone that thinks he is superior.
I imagine similar trends can be found in many countries, including the US. The desire to belong is strong, and sometimes it's in our best interest to think less and cheer more.
When you live with such people long enough but still can't understand what the flying fuck is everyone thinking, then it's either you're insane or them.
Sometimes it turns out it's them. 50% of the world's population is literally dumber than the average.
I mean no one has IQ of -5.
This is just a bit more polite way of calling them stupid.
Take a look at this experiment, it shows that what is self-evident to you may not be as self-evident to others.
http://lesswrong.com/lw/83l/overcoming_the_curse_of_knowledg...
"In 1990, Elizabeth Newton did a fascinating psychology experiment: She paired participants into teams of two: one tapper and one listener. The tappers picked one of 25 well-known songs and would tap out the rhythm on a table. Their partner - the designated listener - was asked to guess the song. How do you think they did?
Not well. Of the 120 songs tapped out on the table, the listeners only guessed 3 of them correctly - a measly 2.5 percent. But get this: before the listeners gave their answer, the tappers were asked to predict how likely their partner was to get it right. Their guess? Tappers thought their partners would get the song 50 percent of the time. You know, only overconfident by a factor of 20. What made the tappers so far off?
They lost perspective because they were "cursed" with the additional knowledge of the song title.Chip and Dan Heath use the story in their book Made to Stick to introduce the term:
"The problem is that tappers have been given knowledge (the song title) that makes it impossible for them to imagine what it's like to lack that knowledge. When they're tapping, they can't imagine what it's like for the listeners to hear isolated taps rather than a song. This is the Curse of Knowledge. Once we know something, we find it hard to imagine what it was like not to know it. Our knowledge has "cursed" us. And it becomes difficult or us to share our knowledge with others, because we can't readily re-create our listeners' state of mind.""Also, LinkedIn seems to have several IP addresses, some of them may not be blacklisted yet.
The main problem is in tendency itself: the government writes crazy laws and trying to enforce these laws in real life.
It's good that these laws still are not very effective (I mean it's still possible to bypass them) but looking over last 4 years, I see how significantly internet freedom is deteriorated in Russia (i.e. before 2012, there was no such thing is Russian firewall which maintained at federal level by the government).
I'm not necessary disagreeing, but why should they? I mean, it is obviously useful, but it doesn't directly translate to quality of life improvement.
For example, want to open up some business in Germany? You're going to have an easier time speaking either German or English than if you just speak Russian. Swap in Chinese/French/Spanish/Arabic if you like, but all of these still take a back seat to English (at the moment).
Internet is indeed very beneficial in a sense that it provides a tangible reward path at least for learning basics.
It IS useful if you work in IT and have to read docs, but basic English is enough for that.
The fundamental issue affecting all governments and organizations is that they select for Machiavellian or power-growing behaviours. An individual not maximizing power would lose to one who does, as greater power can buy more allies and followers.
There is a reason we see these outcomes in almost every country. It is emergent behaviour. Blaming the people - or even the politicians - will not help. It is our structures that are inherently flawed; you can't expect people to act against their own interests.
If you would like to know more I'd recommend starting with CGPGrey's video, rules for rulers, or visiting my prior comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12880180
This is a fundamental force that affects the entire world. Its impact on our lives is greater than any new technology.
All the 'bad actions' by governments are understandable in this framework. Actions on climate change, freedom, privacy, etc.
We need to solve this.
Pretty much.
That's why they have passed a law whereby private data from social networks about its citizens has to be stored within Russia and must not be transmitted to any other country.
Linkedin knew that but they ignored it, probably because it didn't make economic sense for them
You can argue if it is acceptable or not for a government to step in and prevent foreign governments from acquiring such data about its population, but calling people stupid like you did frankly makes _you_ look stupid.
Here it's hard to say if it is justified as I do not know what the US secret services and the US military might be able to do with this kind of data in a conflict. (having the passwords of XX million Russians could be devastating in a cyberattack as many will do the stupid thing and reuse the same password everywhere)
Which is a good reason to let them continue collecting them indefinitely?
> Also, Russia doesn't and won't force any company to store users' data exclusively under their jurisdiction, as this would not allow any foreign company to operate in Russia, making your arguments incorrect.
You state this as if it was a fact, but there is great uncertainty among lawyers and businesses if the law requires data to be stored exclusively in Russia or if that's not the case. In any way you'll have to ask for permission which they might never grant you if you are a company like Facebook that's storing very sensitive information.
Which is not something your government can forbid or even verify, they have no way of enforcing anything under other jurisdictions. Whatever company says it did or didn't do there - the government has no choice but to believe them.
I can't say with the little information I've got if it is necessary or not but I understand the rationale whereby someone might implement this because they are not willing to bet the survival of their people or their nation on the goodwill of others.
Speaking more broadly - yeah, Russia is an authoritarian populist regime with a known penchant for human rights abuses and suppression of political dissent. And so it's going to be judged as such when it does things, not equally to any other country. This is similar to how we judge people differently, and ascribe different motivations, based on their past actions that we know about.
And state and especially local politics are easier to influence, too. State politics more so in states that have some form of voter initiatives (which mine does), which rewards grassroots bottom-up efforts.
Moreover, the law does not actually prevent the companies from storing data somewhere else -- Article 12 mentions many allowed reasons to send the data to other countries.
What this law, however, allows is for government to apply pressure on the company by treating to seize their servers (such as this case: https://torrentfreak.com/police-shut-down-russian-rapidshare... ). I see no other reason for the law.
Petty attempt to force big companies to pay for Russian hosting.
> Kremlin loves to spy on its own citizens. And they already did that for a long time.
Most of the governments do love to spy on its own citizens, for obvious reasons.
VPN is only temporary cure. I think soon or later Kremlin will try to crack down use of VPN when it becomes popular.
> Most of the governments do love to spy on its own citizens, for obvious reasons.
And I'm not fond of most governments and even notion of big intrusive government.
Correct, but VPN would allow you to use Linkedin until you have not managed to get rid of the Russian citizenship
> P.S. I hope to get rid of toxic Russian citizenship in the future.
This doesn't prevent or help Russia from spying on its own citizens.
I get that you are anxious. But the traffic that travels from your computer to servers outside of Russia is just as easy to spy on for Russian intelligence services as the case where the servers are located inside the country.
It does, however, make it more difficult for the US to spy on Russian citizens, which it has been caught trying to do.
Ehh.. no? TLS protects the data against snooping, but only borders protect you from warrants. Russia based servers are subject to Russian law and warrants.
I see that the tacit assumption in this thread is that the FSB can't defeat simple consumer encryption.
The certificates in Russian citizens' browsers allow the Russian government to intercept their communications. This is just one of hundreds of weaknesses to that belief.
There are no government certs in Russian citizens' browsers at the moment. Furthermore, government mandated hardware, that ISPs have to install, is not installed in a configuration permitting any kind of MITM, it only sees mirrored traffic.
And while you are at it you could also tell us how this regulation
> make it more difficult for the US to spy on Russian citizens
???
> everbody wants to know now how those certificates are included in Russian citizens browsers.
Included in the builds.
> And while you are at it you could also tell us how this regulation make it more difficult for the US to spy on Russian citizens
The traffic will stay inside of infrastructure controlled by the Russian government through its domestic ISPs, rather than exiting the country to ingestion nodes disclosed by Snowden to be used to surveil on internet traffic.
Russian citizens download and install specially crafted builds instead of the officials ones? Are they forced, or do they they trust those FSB builds more?
> The traffic will stay inside of infrastructure controlled by the Russian government through its domestic ISPs, rather than exiting the country.
I guess we are not talking about the same, because the the regulation doesn't dictate this. It "just" says, that there has to be a copy of the data in Russia. The server can still be outside of Russia.
This whole conversation is just not going anywhere. The Russian government can't snoop your tls data if it leaves the country, end of story. That's the reason for this law and the article to begin with!
You aren't claiming that they couldn't compromise a CA, are you? That's pretty much the only thing that would make such an assumption unreasonable.
If this were true, I would feel very comfortable speaking about politics in Russia, as in the United States all consumer-grade encryption is being broken by our intelligence services.
There have been some attempts by the ISPs to enable MITM, but it's very crude - they basically block SSL, except for their own custom root certificate that they explicitly require you to install, and then they use that to MITM you. It's all very blatant, and I think there was only one ISP actually trying to do it.
Also, I'm not aware of any cases of dissenters caught because their encryption was broken. Most people who get persecuted for their views said all the things they did out in the open, either to make a stand, or because they were careless.
I found it's alarming that LinkedIn is blocked in Russia. Blocking LinkedIn significantly reduces chances to find a job in Europe.
But I expected that since I watched closely on new laws restricting internet freedom in Russia.
Official motivation behind this law is to prevent US spying on Russian citizens (this law was proposed after Snowden's scandal).
Of course, this motivation was a lie as everything else which came out of dirty rotten mouths of nasty Kremlin bastards.
The real motivation is that the Kremlin loves to spy on its own citizens. And they already did that for a long time.
The problem is that these anti-freedom laws do bother only very small percentage of Russians. The rest of Russia won't even notice if Kremlin completely shuts down access to the global internet. Heck, the majority of Russians doesn't even bother to learn elementary English!
Stupid people buy everything Kremlin tells them, including version about protecting Russian citizens from US NSA.
The general principle is that any government is constantly trying to expand itself and limit citizen's freedoms. The only force which can prevent government from endlessly limiting citizen's freedoms is the majority of citizens (definitely not a minority of non-rich citizens). Every freedom above what masses asking for is only at mercy of the government's bueracrats.
It means that in absolutely any country masses fully deserve their government.
I wrote more details about this principle here:
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-living-in-totalitarian-s...
So I consider myself as a part of absolute tiny minority of Russian citizens which has no voice at all (thanks to backward masses).
That's why I left Russia and I hope forever!
I think LinkedIn could be unblocked if LinkedIn agrees to meet these crazy requirements. Even if LinkedIn would be unblocked, it won't change sad state of freedoms in Russia.
P.S. I hope to get rid of toxic Russian citizenship in the future.