There are a few technical issues I need to work out before I make the change though. First, I need to get macOS running natively on my workstation so I can install my own software on the phone, as I'm not running out to get a MacBook for this single need. Second, I need a root shell.

Secure enclave. App sandboxing. Fine-grained revocable permissions. TouchID. Differential privacy. iMessage encryption. Find My iPhone. On-device models for photo recognition.

The question is how to spin it in a positive way.

The developer looks at the app sandbox and fine-grained permissions and thinks "I can't run my code on my own device," and walks away.

The police officer looks at TouchID and the secure enclave and thinks "I can't gather evidence," and walks away.

The marketeer looks at on-device models and differential privacy and thinks "I can't understand what my users want if the device doesn't report it," and walks away.

But the user (arguably) benefits from each of these things. App sandboxing, permissions, and a lack of background tasks remove the ability to run malicious code without my consent, in theory. Secure enclave and encryption remove a malicious third party's ability to intercept my communication, in theory. On-device recognition models allow me to benefit from better organization without sending my photos to some cloud vision service, in theory.

I agree that this would piss off developers who value this kind of data robbery - but Apple is in a much better position to double down on selling quality apps that treat their users as customers instead of products than Google (based on the statistic that iPhone users purchase more apps).

There's Ubuntu Phone, KDE Plasma, Copperhead and others but they don't feel like a good solution. The problem is always the same: no apps. It doesn't matter if I can install 99/100 apps I need but the one I can't is a messenger one of my clients requires me to use. Or if I can't really rely on a compatibility layer like MicroG, since Android is not that open anymore.

These OSes exist today, and I'd like to use them, but they're typically limited to a very small handful of (typically obsolete) devices. As long as this is the case, they'll have a lot of trouble finding enough developers and users.

If we could simply link our own kernels against these drivers the way we do with the nvidia driver and DKMS on desktops, it would be a revolutionary step forward for alt smartphone OSes. We could start working on userland instead of spending so much time devising hacks to simply get graphics and radio working one handset at a time. Unfortunately, the OEMs couldn't care less and would much rather our phones become e-waste than eat into next year's sales figures. Until then, we're pretty much at the mercy of Apple and Google :(

So yes they do feel the need to collect as much data as possible.

A year ago when I got my iphone I deleted all of the historical voice data that google stored. Just now, In the process of finding the google activity link below, I've learned that all my deleted voice clips have magically undeleted themselves.

I've been very happy with iOS - there's some little UI gripes, but for me the biggest feature is Tim Cook standing up to the US government on behalf of privacy. I'm convinced that as an organisation Google just doesn't understand what privacy is or why its important to people. With all the new deep app intelligence features in android, I shudder to think about simply how much data google might be storing about its users. I'm very happy to be out.

[1] https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity?product=29

Apple have gladly handed over user info on dozens of occasions (in accordance with the law).

There are tons of stock Android phones you can get from "off market" manufacturers

The Nexbit Robin: https://www.nextbit.com/

The OnePlus two or three: https://oneplus.net/2 , https://oneplus.net/3

Xiomi Mi Note: http://www.mi.com/en/minote/

ZTE Axon 7: https://www.zteusa.com/axon7/

Obi SJ1.5: http://www.obiworldphone.com/global/sj1.5

VeryKool (InfoSonic): https://www.verykool.net/Products/Smart_Phones/

As far as I know, these are all "stock" and only come with the smattering of Google apps, and absolutely none of the carrier bloatware you usually get. When I got my OnePlus Two, all it had on it were maybe 6 Google apps and that's it, nothing more, nothing less.

I've been ecstatic with the performance of the phone and only having the apps you really want on the phone makes it much easier to use. Plus, you can completely customize it, put a custom ROM on it and turn off all the Google tracking stuff. I have way more piece of mind since I got it.

Like don't use the google "now" or "pixel" launchers. Turn off google on tap. Etc..

You are among the few (yes yes even here on HN). And google doesn't make money with you. So who cares?

People have pushed this "You are paranoid, no one is out to get you" narrative since the 90s. Everyone has something to hide, even if its just their sex life or beliefs that aren't politically favored that might affect your employment.

    <post class="devils-advocate">

The threat I'm worried about is the surveillance arm of the US government. The small glimpses we've seen are frightening - for example, they spliced a cable between two google data centers and recorded (some? all?) of the traffic travelling between them. This particular hole has since been plugged (google encrypts between-data-center traffic now), but we simply don't know what the US government's capabilities are. This isn't paranoia stuff - they really do this kind of thing.

And even if google manages to 'go dark' to the NSA, the US government can just legally demand access to all of our data. And block google from telling us that the data intrusion happened.

Its funny you mention FUD. Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt is exactly how I feel about trusting google (and by extension the US government) with every email, search, voice, in-app text in android, phone call and so on that I've ever made.

As a non-US citizen, I have even fewer protections and I can't fight this politically. But I can give my money to Apple instead. So thats what I do.

I don't have a single bad thing to say about Google, but that doesn't mean that I am not afraid of their power and I don't dread the day that the current management will not be there to keep them in check. And sooner or later that day will come.

Which one? In which way is it a fallacy?

You have no specific insight on the behavior of Google's future leadership team, so the assertion that Google will necessarily start abusing their users at some point in the future is unsupported.

(Apologies if this is coming off a bit blunt, there's just not much else to say)

:D

---

http://www.theweek.co.uk/google/11581/google-worker-fired-fo...

> But further examples of Barksdale's abuse of his privileges were more serious. Earlier this spring, he viewed call logs from Google Voice in order to identify the girlfriend of a 15-year-old boy, who had refused to name her. Barksdale then taunted the boy and threatened to call his girlfriend.

---

Not a single instance of a Google employee misusing info? Not one you say?

A failure of internal controls qualifies as a problem just as serious as intentional abuse of it.

Then you shouldn't have replied to me and changed the context?

The context was information in Google's possession.

You tried to narrow it to advertising after I replied which is, at best, silly.

EDIT:

> ..did you read the original post?

You replied to me and tried to plays devil advocate. The context of my words is the one that is relevant, not your attempt to shift the goal posts into some narrow land of the absurd where you get to pretend the fact information Google collects ultimately gets abused isn't a privacy problem.

So just stop, honestly. Your position as absurd as storing plain text passwords because "Well, there has never been an official policy of abusing that information."

Rogue admins, hackers, etc. are all valid threats to privacy when the information is stored in an easily transportable form and the fact that isn't obvious to you terrifies me that you are somehow a professional sysadmin.

My original words are: "And yet not one single instance of Google misusing their collected advertising info exists."

And nobody has got you since the 90s. When will it happen? And when it does, what will 'it' be?