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Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by tonyedgecombe on Thursday October 13, 2016 @09:50AM (#12700734)
"Developer preview of Unity 8 includes desktop, tablet and phone UX convergence"

Am I the only one that thinks this is a terrible idea?

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by solaris_7 on Thursday October 13, 2016 @10:07AM (#12700825)
I'm always intrigued by this desire for integration. Even if you want to have one device that is mainly a phone but also a PC when you connect it to an external 24" screen and keyboard - why can't it have totally different UX experiences optimized for each state? Is that really so bad?

Windows 8 was a UX disaster - so maybe that's just coloring my judgement. I haven't used Ubuntu on mobile yet so guess I need to try it.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by wvenable on Thursday October 13, 2016 @12:17PM (#12701816)
Windows 8 was a separate UI for desktop and tablet. Windows 10, for comparison, more closely combines the tablet and desktop modes. Windows 8 was a disaster and Windows 10, at least for desktop/tablets, is more of a success.

I think the problem with completely different UX experiences is exactly that. People want a similar experience with the same software. Microsoft assumed with Windows 8 that the tablet interface would work on the desktop but people don't want that watered down of an experience. Windows 10 at least lets you use tablet-designed applications on the desktop in a more integrated way.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by baldfat on Thursday October 13, 2016 @12:22PM (#12701860)
> Windows 8 was a separate UI for desktop and tablet

Wait what? The "Metro" was the combining of the GUI for touch and mouse. I actually prefer the Win 8 UI since it is more of a tiled window manager like I use in Linux. Windows 10 is back to click with a mouse. Windows 8 I never touched the mouse unless I needed it in a program.

> Windows 10, for comparison, more closely combines the tablet and desktop modes

It was a move away from Tablets and back to laptop desktop focus.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by wvenable on Thursday October 13, 2016 @01:11PM (#12702320)
> The "Metro" was the combining of the GUI for touch and mouse... I never touched the mouse unless I needed it in a program.

The Metro interface was not optimized for mouse operations; it was a touch UI you could "touch" with a mouse. All apps were full screen. UI elements were hidden and meant to be swiped from the sides of the screen. Nothing about Metro seemed to be optimized for the desktop.

But thankfully you could completely switch modes and have a regular Windows 7-like desktop experience. When I ran Windows 8.1 it booted straight to the desktop, I used ClassicShell for the start menu, and I never saw a single metro app.

With Windows 10 can run metro applications in regular desktop windows as well as switch to tablet mode and run regular desktop applications and metro apps full screen or tiled.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by baldfat on Thursday October 13, 2016 @01:46PM (#12702613)
The "Metro" was also optimized for keyboards
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by wvenable on Thursday October 13, 2016 @04:47PM (#12703897)
Metro supported keyboards (to an extend) but I wouldn't say it was "optimized" for it. Even some Metro apps, like Netflix, couldn't be controlled by the keyboard. That one kept me from using the Netflix app on Windows 8 as a HTPC solution.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by NetStrikeForce on Thursday October 13, 2016 @01:12PM (#12702328)
> It was a move away from Tablets and back to laptop desktop focus.

Why? I mean, what are the changes that make you say that?

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by baldfat on Thursday October 13, 2016 @01:53PM (#12702661)
Windows 7 was not a tablet environment. Windows 8 was a full tablet environment and Windows 10 is a mixture of both and tablet took a tiny hit.

I'm weird I know but I preferred Windows 8.1 and more so on touch devices. I have about 20 touch screens at work and I miss the charms and the swipe in from the right and the easy short cuts. Open a program in Windows 8 was win-enter. Windows 10 it is win-arrow up. silly example but these arguments are usually silly when talking preferences.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by wvenable on Thursday October 13, 2016 @05:12PM (#12704079)
You aren't that weird. My daughter had a touch screen laptop and she also preferred Windows 8 to Windows 10 and missed the charms and the swipe in. I, however, could barely use her computer because of all the fingerprints!

Windows 8 on the "desktop" was a carrot for all the computer manufacturers who decided, that year, to put touch screens on everything.

A better strategy for Microsoft would have been to call it Surface OS and release it just for tablets (and phones) and focus on Metro and have the desktop as a cool add-on for their tablet OS. For the desktop, they should have done a Windows 8 that was more like 7 yet still have Metro but more as an add-on. This wouldn't have helped you as much but it would have been better for them overall.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by baldfat on Friday October 14, 2016 @07:18AM (#12707340)
> A better strategy for Microsoft would have been to call it Surface OS and release it just for tablets

I say open up the ability to run optional desktop environments like we have in Linux. I can have my tiled window manager (I am sure 2% of users would LOVE it and 98% would HATE it) and then others could use one of the official desktop environments. No need for a whole OS version. Its bad enough we have Pro and non-Pro Windows 10.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by wvenable on Saturday October 15, 2016 @12:18AM (#12712684)
Seems like a recipe for confusion and fragmentation. It certainly hasn't helped Linux.

Although my suggestion sounds like two different operating systems, it's really just about how it's marketed. Fundamentally the technology doesn't have to be any different.

Of course, if your OS is flexible enough things like tiling can be done as add on: http://www.nurgo-software.com/products/aquasnap

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by Osiris on Thursday October 13, 2016 @03:04PM (#12703181)
Windows 10 has a tablet mode.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by V-2 on Thursday October 13, 2016 @10:48AM (#12701091)
They shouldn't be totally different. Common look and feel is welcome in my opinion. Then obviously they should be customized to adjust for different input devices and screen sizes.

It can be done without repeating the Windows 8 fiasco - which seemed to be tailored for touch-input devices, leading to clunky experience on a regular PC.

Eg. see Remix OS, or Android for desktop: http://www.jide.com/remixos

It's Android, but from the look of it, it's adapted nicely: https://youtu.be/TjAxCWO84L4 (I admit I haven't used it myself, but even if there are some quirks not visible at first glance, my point is not that Remix OS hit the sweet spot, only that it can be done in principle).

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by jug on Thursday October 13, 2016 @10:53AM (#12701123)
Yes, I think Windows 10 is a more mature and sane take on this concept, where the "apps" can now run windowed as usual. Makes the transition _much_ less jarring, and is more like how RemixOS also mentioned in the comments here does it with Android.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by digi_owl on Thursday October 13, 2016 @12:19PM (#12701830)
Will be interesting to see if OEMs will adopt floating mode for tablets and such with Android 7.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by pjmlp on Thursday October 13, 2016 @01:20PM (#12702407)
Right now what I am seeing is the majority of tablets with keyboards are being sold with Windows 10 on them, lets see if OEMs decide to sell Android 7 as well.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by Sylos on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:59AM (#12701647)
I used to have the same opinion until I found an example of UI continuity which actually helped me learn a different UI quicker and didn't feel like it held me back once I had learned it.

But well, that wasn't continuity between phone and desktop. It was continuity between GUI and CLI (openSUSE's YaST).

Whether it really makes sense trying to find a compromise between [mouse&keyboard + big screen] and [touch + small screen] is then again an entirely different question. And in my opinion, this isn't happening until we have a good generic solution for projecting the vast number of different screens that you need on a phone UI to one big, densely-settled screen as is necessary for a good desktop UI.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by Zardoz84 on Thursday October 13, 2016 @12:10PM (#12701738)
I'm a user of a convertible Table PC. Windows 8.1 was really pleasant to use. In special compared against Windows 7.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by wyldfire on Thursday October 13, 2016 @10:57AM (#12701148)
> why can't it have totally different UX experiences optimized for each state? Is that really so bad?

Gee, not only is it not bad it seems like it's really good. The context seems so different as to necessitate different UX.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by pbhjpbhj on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:03AM (#12701177)
It sounds like you're conflating UX and UI? The UI can differ massively within an overarching consistent UX.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by wyldfire on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:05AM (#12701193)
Yes, perhaps I am.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by WayneBro on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:56AM (#12701617)
Windows 8 was not a UX disaster. It just wasn't finished. How long did you use it for?

I personally used it the whole time it was available. Despite the fact that it was unfinished, it was still vastly superior in many ways to other desktop systems. So, I'm quite certain that I don't know what you mean at all when you say "UX disaster".

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by baldfat on Thursday October 13, 2016 @12:23PM (#12701877)
I prefer Window 8 since I use a tiled Window Manager (i3) on Linux. Windows 8 was a much better productivity UI for me since I never had to touch a mouse unless I was in a program that specifically worked better with a mouse.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by Sylos on Thursday October 13, 2016 @12:56PM (#12702178)
Since you seem to want actual evidence that Windows 8's UX was a disaster, well, what's the biggest difference between Windows 7 and Windows 8 for a user? It's the UX, I assume you can agree.

And if you look at the marketshare of Windows 7 vs. Windows 8/8.1, you see a pretty big difference.

StatCounter (includes mobile): 20.36% vs. 5.64%

netmarketshare.com: 48.27% vs. 9.61%

Steam Hardware Survey: 36.38% vs. 10,78%

Now, you might respond with Windows 7 simply having more adoption, because it has been around longer, which is a valid point. I can only really refute that with the anecdotal evidence, that Windows 7 is currently seeing more growth off of the people moving away from XP and Windows 10, than Windows 8 is seeing.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by simonh on Thursday October 13, 2016 @12:08PM (#12701720)
Most actual users had a disastrous experience of it. Hence user experience disaster.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by krylon on Thursday October 13, 2016 @12:17PM (#12701821)
To be fair, I work as a sysadmin / helpdesk monkey / sometimes-developer at a Windows shop, and the amount of complaints about Windows 8 was a lot lower than I had expected. A couple of users did ask me, however, to install ClassicShell on their machines. (Windows 8 has given me more trouble sysadmin-wise than its predecessors, but most of that was due to third-party software. Especially, Windows 8 will regularly hang on startup say "Please wait...", at least on some machines - but that has nothing to do with the GUI.)

Personally, I still think the lack of a start menu is very disruptive - and since Microsoft re-introduced it in Windows 10 makes me think I was not alone in thinking so.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by digi_owl on Thursday October 13, 2016 @12:30PM (#12701939)
The basic problem with Windows 8 was that Metro apps and Win32 programs didn't mingle. The whole desktop was basically treated, within the UI at least, as a single big app.

Come 8.1 and this was partially reversed, with Metro apps being possible to manage much like Win32 programs (showing up on taskbar, could be closed or minimized via icons top right).

And i must say i kinda like using the start page concept for launching programs once i have things set so i go right to the "list" rather than dealing with the live tiles.

I have been contemplating getting a smaller Windows based tablet as an alternative to my existing Android one.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by ansible on Thursday October 13, 2016 @01:13PM (#12702349)
The basic problem with Windows 8 was that Metro apps and Win32 programs didn't mingle. The whole desktop was basically treated, within the UI at least, as a single big app.

Hah. The first time I played a music file in Win8, the application took over my screen, and I had 50 Cent glaring at me (almost larger than life) while my song was playing. I guess he though my music was inadequate, and thought I should buy his stuff instead.

Also, just going to the program tiles screen was just a wall of visual noise. All these tiles were animated, it was hard to focus on what was there with all that going on. You can (and I did) turn off animations for them (or just delete them from the shortcut list), which helped a lot. So yeah, that was not a great first experience.

I'm totally fine with Windows 10 these days, at least as far as UI goes.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by krylon on Thursday October 13, 2016 @02:00PM (#12702715)
> The basic problem with Windows 8 was that Metro apps and Win32 programs didn't mingle.

True! OTOH, I have never seen one of our users use a Metro App intentionally. At most they would run into the builtin PDF viewer if no other viewer was installed or registered to open PDFs.

One of my coworkers has a Windows phone, and he tells me on the phone the interface is very nice. But I still cannot imagine what the people at Microsoft must have been thinking...

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by digi_owl on Thursday October 13, 2016 @02:44PM (#12703045)
Best i can tell, Microsoft wants to get rid of Win32. But their attempts are hopelessly hamfisted.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by krylon on Friday October 14, 2016 @08:22AM (#12707588)
In the sense of Win32 the API, I can understand their desire well. ;-) I worked on an application written in C for Win32 for about two years, and while I learned a lot about C in that time, I came to despise the Win32 API.

On the other hand, I don't think they will ever get completely rid of that thanks to the huge, huge body of existing third-party apps.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by WayneBro on Thursday October 13, 2016 @12:12PM (#12701757)
"Most actual users"?

How about a citation?

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by V-2 on Thursday October 13, 2016 @12:27PM (#12701904)
"Most" isn't probably true, but the number was quite significant, indirectly confirmed by Microsoft by backing down from some design decisions in version 8.1 (bringing the Start button back) and 10 (restoring the more traditional-looking Start menu). Userbase pressure was an obvious factor in these choices / concessions. I can't recollect anything similar in the history of Windows UX.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by agumonkey on Thursday October 13, 2016 @01:04PM (#12702253)
I consider myself experienced and unbiased, but the visual inconsistencies (animation glitches, awkward scales and proportions) drove me away from trying Win8 longer. I'd be very curious to have more details about your experience with it considering your above message.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by Zardoz84 on Thursday October 13, 2016 @12:12PM (#12701761)
The thing is that windows 8 (and 8.1) was perfect for a tablet or a tablet pc user. How ever, for a normal desktop user, would feel at least strange.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by yulaow on Thursday October 13, 2016 @09:59AM (#12700782)
Meh, let them try! At least on ubuntu we can choose between a lot of DE and WM, and we are not obliged to use unity anyway, so nothing is really forced on us (Still wishing to have a win7 ui on w10)
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by gertlex on Thursday October 13, 2016 @12:04PM (#12701679)
On Windows 8 and 10 (Surface Pro and a Desktop respectively), I use Windows7-like UI for most things via Classic Shell.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by theandrewbailey on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:48AM (#12701542)
The Aero UI is exactly as pretty as it was 10 years ago, and I think that it all still looks good.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by oblio on Thursday October 13, 2016 @09:55AM (#12700754)
It depends how it's done. Microsoft's approach was pretty wonky as it basically gutted the desktop. If Ubuntu's one is more respectful for the desktop, why not try it?
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by raverbashing on Thursday October 13, 2016 @10:25AM (#12700957)
My bet is that it isn't

I'm not happy to say this but free software consistently fumbles usability

So, no. It's not going to work for all of them

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by criddell on Thursday October 13, 2016 @10:24AM (#12700953)
I have a feeling that if Microsoft were to design a motorcycle, it would have a steering wheel and gas pedal.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by davidw on Thursday October 13, 2016 @10:07AM (#12700836)
Seems kind of like aiming for a convergent experience with a pocketknife and a table saw, but hey, maybe my pessimism is unwarranted. I use Xubuntu anyway. I'm extremely grateful for all the effort people have put into Ubuntu over the years.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by formula1 on Thursday October 13, 2016 @10:12AM (#12700870)
I think this is a good thing in the long run. I have no problem being the beta tester for a unifying ui. This can consolidate development focus which arguably will reduce bugs. As people get more tired of one ui, there will likely eventually be enough pushback to cause more custom options.

A major difference between ubuntu and every other os is ubuntu is open source with a rich enough history to show it has staying power. Worse comes to worse another fork happens. But the OS UX paradigm has a huge opportunity to evolve with this kind of focus

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by toxican on Thursday October 13, 2016 @01:34PM (#12702521)
There's a reason I've not used plain Ubuntu in years, and it's Unity. Pretty much all canonical variations of Ubuntu ship with a better UI than Ubuntu anymore.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by vegabook on Thursday October 13, 2016 @03:16PM (#12703275)
I don't agree with this. I have done Gnome 3.18 for 6 months, did i3 for another 12, and tbh, I found myself with a bog-standard Unity interface on a new machine about 3 months ago and I haven't bothered to change it. Why? Because it doesn't try to be clever, it doesn't get in the way, sure I have to use the mouse a tiny bit more, but it just seems nice and vanilla. It works well by being inconspicuous and straightforward, while not trying extra hard to be boring (Cinnamon). And the fonts look crisp like OS/x which, to my detail-oriented eye, is a big deal. Actually the only UI I consider truly interesting, believe it or not, is e17. That feels like being on a Star Trek transporter beaming onto a Romulan Warbird. Real deal no compromise "this ain't Kansas", if that's your thing. Try Terminology for a taster.

All the others (KDE) are trying too hard while simultaneously not being truly interesting. Or they're stultifyingly boring (cinnamon - why?) without being resource cheap. On this front, xfce on armbian is a beaut. Cinnamon without the weight. I also give i3 a big thumbs up btw but I just can't live without the tray icon conveniences for bluetooth, dropbox, power down etc.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by stormbrew on Thursday October 13, 2016 @04:25PM (#12703760)
> I give i3 a big thumbs up btw but I just can't live without the tray icons.

What do you mean? i3bar supports tray icons just fine...

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by zerognowl on Thursday October 13, 2016 @02:23PM (#12702889)
Keep in mind, iOS apps send your devices' serial number & MAC address via a simple API command, and this can all be done without asking for permission. If you bought an iDevice in a store, you're also on CCTV buying that device and it can absolutely be traced to your canonical name.

The idea behind Ubuntu tablets is that it imports the security model of the Debian Linux trust chain to the user, and so worries of serial numbers and the typical 'link-ability' one finds in proprietary iOS devices are vanished.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by talideon on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:15AM (#12701269)
They're not forcing it on anybody any time soon. Until Unity 8 has parity with Unity 7, it's not even going to be considered as the default. Funny thing is, their efforts to avoid the issues with and backlash against the original Unity are the reason Unity 8 has been delayed for so long.

Whatever else you might say about Canonical, at least they're doing the whole 'convergence' thing in a pretty open and responsible manner.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by matt4077 on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:25AM (#12701334)
Is there a meaningful difference to responsive websites? Because those have generally evolved to a point where the interfaces work quite well across devices while sharing meaningful amounts of code to make it easier than build x individual UIs.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by superkuh on Thursday October 13, 2016 @10:16AM (#12700901)
It is a terrible idea. No matter their popularity phones have tiny screens and limited, slow input methods compared to desktop PCs. And mobile OSes have to be provided with special workarounds to deal with the absolutely terrible mobile IP networking that cannot even keep a TCP session open reliably.

Convergence to a user interface that provides the crutches for these limits of mobile platforms neccessarily gimps the desktop UI too.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by reddotX on Thursday October 13, 2016 @09:59AM (#12700784)
even in the current state Unity 8 is not really that bad to use on desktop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaf2LTeLHhQ (it's more or less like unity7 on desktop)
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by e12e on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:34AM (#12701409)
I'd say it depends. I'm a rather happy owner of a Microsoft Surface 4 Pro - and I do see the need for the ability to switch between modes (and I can't say MS has exactly succeeded here, but also not entirely failed). Granted, I don't really see why I'd want UI/UX adapted to a screen 1/8th the size - but to a certain extent "tablet mode" and "tiny tablet mode" are probably more similar than "tablet mode" and "laptop/desktop" mode.

I'd have to test it of course. One thing that MS has not managed is make a UI that works well for high resolution screens (for legacy applications, that is). But I guess one of the reasons I'm positive to the use of "convergence" buzz word, is that it could mean that all GUI-frameworks are expected to scale in a sane manner. I absolutely understand the skepticism that it will end up being "a worst of all worlds" UI.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by satysin on Thursday October 13, 2016 @10:15AM (#12700887)
Nope I think it is a horrible idea also. Microsoft showed us that mixing the UX between a 5" screen and a 25" screen sucks. I can't imagine Ubuntu working it out any better.

Why the hell do they worry about UX convergence yet I can't put the dock on the right side of the screen?! (and only just got the ability to put it on the bottom earlier this year!)

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by yAnonymous on Thursday October 13, 2016 @10:09AM (#12700849)
Working everywhere with the same tools on one device would be awesome and I can imagine Unity and Linux being much better at this than Microsoft's pathetic attempt.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by 72deluxe on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:14AM (#12701263)
Why?

Why was Microsoft's attempt pathetic?

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by Pxtl on Thursday October 13, 2016 @10:54AM (#12701127)
Having used Windows 10 and the ascendance of responsive webpages, I can see its potential. Obviously Microsoft completely bungled it in Windows 8, but otherwise:

This is something that can be done and done well, and if so I'd love to have a phone with the power and software of a full desktop device, expressed in a phone-oriented UI.

The trick is that there's a matrix of several features that have to be considered:

1) Tiny screens means that multiple visible applications is not useful, and that all OS UI needs to be auto-hidden (something users want to be able to do anyways). Font sizes may need to be scaled up (that's something you need to be supporting anyways for older folks).

2) Touch means adding new ways to interact with existing widgets (drag scroll, for ex) and buttons need to be scaled up to have a larger hit-area (and you alreayd have to deal with scaling up fonts, so fixed-size UI elements already went out the window).

To me, the important thing is that 1 and 2 are not duct-taped together. If I have a phone and a stylus or I plug in a keyboard and mouse, I want 1 but not 2.

On the other hand, if I have a 20" touch-screen, I want 2 but not 1.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by dijit on Thursday October 13, 2016 @09:56AM (#12700762)
You're not the only one, but since they're the only company backing unity they're free to explore things.

Maybe it's a great idea hidden as a bad one- I'm for exploration as long as they're not dragging software contributed to by others coughgnomecough.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by fingar on Thursday October 13, 2016 @10:42AM (#12701050)
Bad idea to include the developer preview?

You can safely try it out and see whether it works for your hardware.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by qwertyuiop924 on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:08AM (#12701209)
Unified UI is a terrible idea: the idea boils down to this: instead of having several UIs that serve the interface they operate on well, have one UI that serves all the interfaces poorly.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by gurkendoktor on Thursday October 13, 2016 @03:50PM (#12703494)
I'm not sure if it's a terrible idea in general, but a Ubuntu phone would be many years behind iOS/Android when it comes to apps. I think only Apple and Google have the marketshare to pull off a convergent OS at this point.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by AgentME on Thursday October 13, 2016 @01:03PM (#12702245)
I love Unity, so hearing that it's getting better on mobile sounds great.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by krylon on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:49AM (#12701560)
You are not. I still remember how well it worked out on Windows 8...
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by WayneBro on Thursday October 13, 2016 @12:02PM (#12701664)
Yes I remember too and it worked very well. I used it the whole time it was available.

It worked well on my Windows tablets (Surface Pro, Surface Pro 3, Dell Venue 8 Pro).

It worked well on my gaming PC, my dev workstation and my hyper-v server.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by krylon on Thursday October 13, 2016 @02:04PM (#12702737)
Admittedly, I have been told by several people that the new interface worked very nicely on tablets. That's what it was made for, after all.

On desktops without a touch screen, I found it annoying and still do. Of course, one can still get work done using the new interface, but I still don't understand how they got the crazy idea of throwing out the start menu.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by tdkl on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:35AM (#12701414)
Nope. I wished Ubuntu used the Windows 8 clusterfuck to gather more ground on desktop, but instead they jumped on mobile/tablet hype rollercoaster.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by bandrami on Thursday October 13, 2016 @10:34AM (#12700998)
No.

It's been tried over and over again for a decade now, and keeps running very hard onto the rocks of "users really, really don't want that".

I get why devs want it: it's a single codebase for everything. But nobody, and I mean nobody, wants to use a desktop computer the way they use a tablet or a phone. There's a reason people tend to disable computer touchscreens.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by luxpir on Thursday October 13, 2016 @10:42AM (#12701052)
>But nobody, and I mean nobody, wants to use a desktop computer the way they use a tablet or a phone.

That's not quite what's on offer. It's more like the ability to plug your phone into a monitor and carry on working. No longer carrying a laptop around (once tablets/phones are at CPU horsepower parity for office work).

So yeah, it's not working backwards like you suggest, it's making the phone/tablet more like a desktop (add mice, keyboards, screens etc.) One mobile device is quite likely all we'll need in the near future, not three separates.

2-in-1 laptops are already selling quite well as MS gets its own convergence efforts underway. Apple are actually lagging in this field and kudos to Ubuntu for steering the ship in an innovative/inevitable direction.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by mrighele on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:11AM (#12701238)
> It's more like the ability to plug your phone into a monitor and carry on working.

Do I really need a phone to do this ? As long as I can reach the same data I don't really care if I'm on the same device where I started working on it.

In fact the software I want to use when I am in front of a monitor is much different than the one I have on my phone, and I am not talking only about user interface, but also features.

Cpu power is getting cheaper and in smaller form factors. I suspect that instead of connecting our phones to the display devices, those devices will be powerful enough that we won't need any integration. And if I really want something portable, I will be able to "add a cpu" with an external stick (like Intel Compute Stick, but cheaper e/o smaller).

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by bandrami on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:12AM (#12701245)
And if I really want something portable, I will be able to "add a cpu" with an external stick

I'd say it's even more likely that anything computationally expensive won't be done in the same room with you to begin with 10 years from now, but will be done by an anonymous compute node in a datacenter that you're leasing for the 5 seconds you're using it.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by magila on Thursday October 13, 2016 @02:35PM (#12702978)
The problem is that model doesn't work very well for probably the most common computationally intensive task consumers do: games.

It also doesn't work well with tasks involving non-trivial datasets. If you've got say 20GB of video from a Gopro you want to transcode, shipping it out to a datacenter is going to be really painful.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by e12e on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:39AM (#12701439)
> There's a reason people tend to disable computer touchscreens.

They do? I've disabled the touchpad on my surface pro 4 (and have been known to toggle it and the nub on my thinkpad) - but the touchscreen actually works great, I think. So much so, that I'm now touching all screens everywhere, like a three year old that's been given a tablet as her first computer.

I've actually thought that a good touch screen and perhaps stylus, would be the perfect environment for something like the ACME editor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP1xVpMPn8M as a new power-user editor.

Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by matt4077 on Thursday October 13, 2016 @11:26AM (#12701343)
I believe it's been quite successful on the web.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by bandrami on Thursday October 13, 2016 @12:34PM (#12701975)
Really? Because everyone pretty universally acknowledges the web is much, much worse than it was 5-10 years ago.
Re:Canonical releases Ubuntu 16.10 by pcwalton on Thursday October 13, 2016 @02:35PM (#12702971)
I don't. Five years ago you couldn't even count on flexbox being available, for crying out loud.