Yeah, I think you're right, I still see Nexus 5s around every day and why did it do so well? Because it was priced at $200 less than otherwise comparable flagship devices from Apple, Samsung and HTC.

Heck, look at the OnePlus 3 right now, it has more battery than a Pixel, an 820 instead of an 821, but also 2 GB more RAM than the Pixel. Pretty close specs overall, but one device costs $250 USD less. Unless the only thing you care about is camera quality, you really have to consider if that Pixel will be $250 more worth of phone than the OP3. Is that 820->821 upgrade going to make a difference in your daily usage?

I think the answer is probably not, and I think that holds true for other flagship devices. Never will I pay $650 when I can get a roughly comparable phone for $400 or less.

You're forgetting some people (like me) don't put price as the top factor. The OP3 is too big, I hate large phones. I also have this borderline allergic reaction to third-party skins after dealing with years and years of Samsung. Then there's the final nail in the coffin - bugs. I used to root and then roll cyanogenmod and there were always these small little bugs that never quite got worked out. I had the same issue with my original OP1, and it appears the same sort of thing exists with the OP3.

If oneplus worked with Google to put vanilla android | a fully supported bug free version | onto the OP3 I'd consider it, but the form factor would still likely be a deal breaker.

Really? I'm running a OP1 right now, never noticed a problem... is there something I'm missing? Biggest issue I've had is probably shooting RAW pictures on non-stock ROMs was kind of complicated until someone made a flashable version of the OPPO camera app.

Well, for starters like 50%+ of the first round of phones to go out had touch screen issues that as far as I know never got fixed. After sending mine back 3 times, I gave up.

You installed cyanogenmod on your OP1?

Yes? Using non-mod cyanogen OS gave me bootloader issues because I didn't update the official way.

I've run CM for a few years on it actually, decided to try Paranoid Android again recently when it looked like they started back up (I missed HOLO) but that now seems abandoned again and I really missed some features that turned out to be from CM, so I'm probably going back soon.

And yet, the OnePlus 3 sells a fraction of the amount that the Samsung Galaxy S7 sells.

It really seems like inexpensive high-end phones should sell like hotcakes, but in practice, it doesn't happen. It's arguably very possible that a $650 phone will sell better than a $450 phone even with the same components, because it'll get perceived as "high-end" in a way the inexpensive one wouldn't.

Probably because not many providers sell the phone, they'd rather rip you off with whatever overpriced contract they can. A few years ago many providers did have the N5 and it did do very well (anecdotally). I think if they could lock those deals down they'd do better, but I'm sure there's some conflicts of interest at play there.

I think they have to price them this high because neither Verizon nor HTC have their logos on the phone. I think that may have cost Google, but of course, I'm just guessing/trying to rationalize why they feel they need to charge so much.

This is even more pronounced in Europe, in Germany OnePlus 3 costs 360€ (~$400) less than the baseline Pixel. Basically you'll get two OnePlus devices (399€) for the price of one Pixel (759€).

> pricing will limit its market to very small size

I'll give Google the benefit of doubt here. I suspect they priced it high either because their production isn't fully in place to handle a massive surge.

OR they are signalling to the market that Google is not just a bunch of free services but also a premium brand like Apple, and they are willing to sacrifice revenue today to solidify their brand.

I think it's a bit of both. Android has its market established, so Google has more to gain through positioning their brand than driving a little extra revenue.

Edit: Now that I think about it undercutting Android partners might be their primary reason–they can risk upsetting Samsung, but prefer not to piss them off too much.

Another possible reason: you can price something higher with the intention of discounting it to drive sales later (especially after the early adopters pay full price). Generally, in consumer products at least, something for list $649 on sale for $499 will outsell something for list $499.

I'm not saying Google is doing this specifically, but I don't imagine they're as anti-discounting as Apple is.

May be more to it, if they position it at this level, there won't be much conflict of interest with their partners (Samsung, LG, et all), don't know, just a thought.

I think it's branding with an AI ecosystem. Assistant and VR will be their iMessage.

I'd be hesitant to buy anything from Google again.. I had a nexus 7 tablet and they killed it in an update. At least with an iPhone, it'll be supported for a few years.

As someone who bought a Nexus 6P with the tagline 'Always New' and the full belief that I'd be receiving Google's latest and greatest software as soon as it was ready, I'm also hesitant. Being locked out of the new launcher, assistant and various other niceties simply because a phone with 'similar but slightly higher specs and a new name' has been released feels like a kick in the teeth to a long-time Nexus fan (I've had the Galaxy Nexus, Nexus 5, Nexus 10 and Nexus 6P). Until 2 days ago it was Google's flagship model; now I'll probably get the new functionality later than iOS users.

Similar Nexus-only owner here -- Nexus 4, Nexus 5, and now Nexus 6P. I skipped Nexus 6 (released between 5 and 6P) and I'm afraid I will also skip the initial Pixel line in favor of what's next.

Depending on what's next, I may have to switch to something else entirely.

Many clamored for a flagship-quality phone and we got it, but the sticker shock is real.

I've owned the 4, 5 and both 7s, but I returned the 5X after a week. It was a good phone but the first (?) batch out of the factory had issues with the touchscreen while charging and it was $700+ here - it wasn't a $700 phone, IMO. Is the Pixel a $1200 phone? I'm not sure, but I've switched to a Moto X Style for $520 and it's quite good.

Unfortunately, I'll have to flash CM soon due to Lenovo deciding to leave the phone on a May 2016 security patch. I'm missing the Nexus updates, but Google's hardware and pricing is leaving a lot to be desired.

First tablet I owned was a HP touchpad, got burned there so decided to go with a safer choice, a year later I bought the Surface RT, what a mistake.

I then had a Nexus 7 that after an update wouldn't turn on. I tried many things until finding on some random forum from another update that you had to hold the power button will holding the volume buttons and then insert the USB charger to start it....

I don't own a tablet anymore.

I just Google Hanged-out (Hungout?) with my mother on the N7 I bought for her a few Christmas' ago and it worked just fine (AFAIK there has been no firmware releases or upgrades that 'brick'ed it - but try this https://www.reddit.com/r/Nexus7/comments/2egszj/2012_is_it_d... ). I'd be curious to know what version upgrade bricked you though.

My Nexus 4 is still my favorite form-factor/experience out-of-the-box for my "I just need quick access to my email and sometimes a camera-phone/video" purposes. It was exactly what I wanted in a phone - $200 - no contract, minimalist, no junkware, hackable out of the box, large enough to one-hand for my average male 5'10 hands, decent battery life.

Granted I actively try to stay away from technology when I'm not working - i.e. I mostly use it as an equivalent for a doctors' pager in case anything catastrophic happens. It's mostly used for GPS (which is pretty phenomenal), to listen to music, and track my speeds/path when I run, etc) so I'm certainly not the power-user who needs 16gb of RAM to support 100 active Safari tabs.

When this breaks, I'm going to upgrade just out of necessity at some point at which point, assuming this isn't cluttered with junkware it's one of the few phones I'm entertaining (since there's no real viable 'open' phone on the market right now, as far as I can tell). The alternatives I'm considering is going for one of those Asian vendors (Lenovo, Xiaomi, OnePlus, Huawei). My Euro and Asian friends say they're all are putting out quality (e.g. Samsung level) stuff with no contract lock-in .

FWIW I felt similarly about my Nexus 4 and was upset when it took a bath. I replaced it with a Nexus 5 and while I initially thought it might be too big, I very quickly got used to the additional size. After two years of use I like it more than the N4 in almost every way. Would a bit more storage or a slightly better camera be nice? Sure, but I almost can't imagine a feature that a new phone could add which would compel me to shell out money for it. My N5 is awesome and I hope it lasts another 2 years.

Nexus 7, killed? Not sure how you followed it up if they bricked your device, but I owned both Nexus 7s and am still rocking the 2013 regularly.

It wasn't bricked, it was just so slow that it couldn't get past the lock screen. Lots of people complained about it on the support forums, and you could get it to work better for a few hours if you got into the settings and cleared the cache, but it wasn't worth it at that point. There was talk of a fix in an update, but I never saw one. So no, it's not like an update burned up the charging circuit or something, it just made the device unusable.

I still use a 2012 Nexus 7 which runs Cyanogenmod 12. Pretty usable for occasional browsing and watching videos.

Android OEM's need to start standardizing bootloader and driver support. Phones are a mature product, and anything I buy I expect to be able to upgrade for a good while longer than 2 years. If it's too much work for component manufacturers to maintain the updates, they need to take it out of their hands.

What do you do when Qualcomm stops updating the graphics drivers for your phone?

I agree I use iPhone 5S which is just fine and very likely to last 1 more year from now.

"Supported" -- I'm not sure if you've ever tried to use a last-gen iPhone device with the latest iOS release, but, every device I've ever owned was sketchy at best after the 1st hardware release, and completely unusable as of the 2nd. In my experience, it didn't matter if I upgraded to the S or full version model, this problem happened from 3->4, 4->5, and 5->6. I expect my wife, who is still an Apple user, to be asking me for the iPhone 7 before the year end because her phone is "a slow piece of shit".

That's simply not true. My daughter currently uses my old iPhone 5, with the latest iOS 10, and the phone works just fine (with changed battery).

As a comparison, my younger daughter inherited my old Nexus 4 (bought couple of months before I got company-issued iPhone 5), the phone introduced more or less in the same time as iPhone 5, and not only the hardware is failing (the top of the screen doesn't respond anymore), Google stopped supporting the phone after a year and some.

Complete hyperbole. I'm using an iPhone 5S with iOS 10 and it seems just as fast as the day I bought it.

I have the same to say even for the iPhone 5, which I'd been using for several years and was recently a delight to use with iOS10.

I actually just bought myself an iPhone 5s to replace it because the iPhone 5's battery life finally became unusably short after many years, but I didn't want a big phone to replace it. My 5s is also performing very well with iOS10.

My 5s is a second-hand refurb, markedly cheaper than the SE, which I was reluctant to buy after several of my acquaintances complained of the device expiring days after purchase.

My comparably old Android phone won't even allow a software update and is still on Android 4. My partner prefers Android and has a Moto G (and has a tendency to drop phones hence why I suggested something cheap to replace) and it also won't update to the latest Android version.

So while the Pixel might be the shiniest, I would be reluctant to invest in something which will not have the effective lifespan of an iPhone.

I really wish Google would make a great Android phone so I could have better integration with my Chromebook and G-Suite. Android phones can be used to unlock Chromebooks in lieu of password entry, which would be a cool feature. I use G-Suite for my business so it would be better for that too. I've never owned a Mac computer and I've little loyalty to any company. The iPhone 5s was simply the apex in terms of phone-to-pocket-size/toughness/tactility/features (for me personally).

> the SE, which I was reluctant to buy after several of my acquaintances complained of the device expiring days after purchase

As a counter point, myself and 2 friends all have the SE, and we all love it. iPhone 5 form factor, better battery life and equal performance to the iPhone 6s made it the winning choice for all 3 of us.

2 of us have had it since launch day, no regrets.

Of course it works well for many buyers. In my mind, it was still £300 more than I paid for my 5s and I had no further demands of the iPhone 5 besides a longer passcode.

I also own a 5S. While I can't say it's as fast as the day I bought it (I got it second-hand with iOS 9 loaded), it's certainly faster than the 3GS it replaced! The 3GS in turn, was a replacement for my Motorola Milestone (Droid in the US) which, despite being released the same year, received a grand total of one major OS updates and then was dropped.

iPhone 5 for my wife here. Working alright too. Older hardware used to be really crippled by each new iOS release. (we had iPhone 1 and iPhone4 before), no such problem nowadays.

Highly disagree. My 4S and 5S were both fantastic for at least two major OS cycles.

Yeah, you get about the same with the Nexus devices, at least I've got friends still running the N5 who've went from 4->5->6 without issue. I've done about the same on my OnePlus One (5 was out when I got it but it shipped with 4) so it's not unheard of on the Android side at least.

Same here. It took four major versions (5 -> 9) for my 4S to become too slow to use.

My iPhone 6 is still perfectly useable, I don't notice any slowness with iOS 10, certainly nothing that makes me want to upgrade.

I've been really surprised how well my iPhone 4S held up. It's a losing battle against software that expects ever more resources, but it still does the things.

I'm rockin' both a 6(work phone) and a 6S(personal phone) on the latest and they're doing great.

Have you considered that it may be user error?

Even if relatively small in market size compared to current Android install base I think Google would like to grab some of Apple's profit from the high end. While Apple has around 17% of unit sales in smartphones they earn something like 91% of the profit [1]. I'm sure other competitors will be aiming to get some of that profit for themselves or at least make life hard for Apple by using competition to drive down Apple's margins.

[1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2016/02/13/apples-iph...

> the iPhone comparable pricing will limit its market to very small size

Why do you think that is? There are around 3x as many Android handsets being sold as iOS handsets, right? The market for high-end Android phones should be as big as the market for Apple phones. I understand there are more Android manufacturers, but that still leaves a pretty big market for Google to sell into.

That's not true. Apple owns the high end market almost entirely, so it's arguable that Android just isn't able to compete with Apple at that point. So the high price point will just keep the phone from selling at all.