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Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by rdtsc on Thursday September 15, 2016 @11:43AM (#12507082)
> Personally, I dislike places where people are provincial and close-minded, so I'll stick to the rural countryside and leave SF to the bigots.

I like that quote. Copied it to my notes for future reference.

To expand more on the topic, I wonder if remote workers are a good way to bring some revival for smaller rural communities.

I visit some of those places and many have a beautiful setting, everyone knows each other, there is a sense of a community. It is quiet.

There is probably a tipping point where if enough companies would hire remote workers, people won't be afraid to move to such communities. Currently many (including me) even if they do remote work, would probably be hesitant to move, because if they have to jump ship, they know there is a smaller chance of getting remote work again. So staying closer to a tech center seems like a better option.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by JPKab on Thursday September 15, 2016 @12:31PM (#12507533)
It's a weird situation, because I was working remotely for a tech company and was required to move to the Boulder, CO area recently. It's an awesome company and I was stoked about the area, so I went ahead and did it, but the requirement for collocation that has been driven by certain management ethos' is odd in such a technology driven world.

The advantages I've had by moving from Arkansas to here have been numerous, and mainly this is due to human nature causing companies with enough co-located employees to leave remote workers out of the loop.

The OP is right though: I find the "herd effect" that occurs from a bunch of very similar people especially potent in SF. What's funny is how diverse they think they are based on superficial traits like maybe ethnicity, but the reality is they tend to be very uniform in socio-economic background, age, and education.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by derekp7 on Thursday September 15, 2016 @03:33PM (#12509098)
And yet there are companies that think nothing of hiring offshore workers to replace local jobs. Sometimes within the same organization. Why is it that a company will require you to either be on-site, or in India, but nowhere else?
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by gozur88 on Thursday September 15, 2016 @05:27PM (#12509956)
From the company's perspective the job has to be one for which the company can reliably measure your output. If you're doing data entry for medical records the company can easily count the number of patients you've finished, the number of pages, even the number of keystrokes.

But for a developer working from home the company can't tell the difference between a bug that took three days of plugging away to find and one that you knocked out in twenty minutes before binge watching House of Cards on company time.

Most professionals have enough personal integrity to work when they say they're working, but the ones that don't can be very corrosive to morale and a big drag on productivity. I got the impression that's why Marissa Meyer forced everyone at Yahoo back into the office.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by flukus on Thursday September 15, 2016 @11:20PM (#12511619)
> But for a developer working from home the company can't tell the difference between a bug that took three days of plugging away to find and one that you knocked out in twenty minutes before binge watching House of Cards on company time.

I'm more productive this way. Having something like House of Cards on in the background provides enough distraction that I don't get distracted by other things, like HN. But if I were to do this in the office I doubt it would go over well.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by fredgrott on Thursday September 15, 2016 @06:17PM (#12510302)
BULLSHIT!

I can damn well see when a issue has been entered in a bug tracker and when the bug has finally been marked fixed with the commit listed in the bug tracker..

So can everyone else including managers

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by happychappy on Thursday September 15, 2016 @09:29PM (#12511302)
Assign bug to me... Fix bug in 20 minutes... wait 3 days (binge watching netflix)... Commit fix, mark bug as fixed...

Relying too much on commits / tracking tools is a red flag of poor management.

If any of my team reported "still working on bug X" in the standup 3 days in row, without any significantly interesting details, I'd have assigned a few more people to help out.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by kls on Thursday September 15, 2016 @08:49PM (#12511158)
This is where automation and proper process management come into play and sadly this is where many companies fall down. It's not that development productivity cannot be tracked it is that management generally does not understand the problem domain that they manage, well enough to put the proper measures and controls in place to identify inefficiencies.

Something as simple as a software review board, which places time estimates on a problem agreed on by a panel of at least 2 developers and then a process to check those estimations against actual results to find how far their estimation deviate from actuality across all developers, gives a fairly accurate picture of how long something should take and becomes more accurate over time. Further automation like linking the ticketing system to the SCM, so that when a branch is created for the issue the clock starts ticking and stops at checkin/smoke test, gives a pretty accurate picture of time spent on a task. Any developer that is deviating far below the low threshold is potentially wasting time and his/her work should be reviewed, as it is only an indicator that there may be a problem not conclusive proof.

I have worked remote for over 7 years, and currently reside in a very remote area for developers (Key West) and have no issue with remote development. Either a company has these process in place or I quickly put them in place. That or find other remote work as my only bad experiences have been with companies that do not have such measured in place. It's not a hard problem to solve one just needs to know the problem domain, most managers don't, so they just resort to the butts in seats management style and honestly without similar controls the same kind of time wasting can be employed, it just manifests itself differently but incompetent managers figure well they are here so work must be getting done.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by gozur88 on Thursday September 15, 2016 @11:18PM (#12511604)
BULLSHIT!

I can easily check the code in at the end of my television spree.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by devonkim on Thursday September 15, 2016 @04:30PM (#12509568)
A lot of places simply are not structured to handle remote workers and penalize them when away from centralized offices. Remote work or distributed companies are an anomaly that present risks when your management doesn't understand the basics and that's understandable.

The presumption is that remote means lower value or productivity as a default in classic companies. It's not necessarily a matter of luxury either; your C levels don't work from their yachts in a marina normally. Some are just too rigid in approach to change how they work even if it's demonstrably negligible. I had a client before that had a mostly distributed team and wouldn't let us increase the hourly rate unless we relocated to an office - few people even at the offices ever talked that often and we hardly ever met in person with the client ourselves even for those five miles down the road.

The usual tech company reasoning now is that the tools for remote work do not facilitate creative, spontaneous insights that are critical for competitive companies.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by noddingham on Thursday September 15, 2016 @01:30PM (#12508060)
As someone that also works in Boulder, is your compensation enough to allow you to actually live in Boulder?
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by analogwzrd on Thursday September 15, 2016 @05:37PM (#12510028)
I've been working full time in Boulder for the past five years and I could get into the bottom end of the real estate market if I really wanted to - I started working straight out of college with no debt, but no equity either. I've stayed out because I've not felt my career stable enough to jump into that kind of long term investment. My company's been going through some ups and downs and cash in the bank seemed smarter than having it tied up in property. It also came in handy having some "f-you money" considering I just took two months of unpaid leave.

The cheapest house I've seen in Boulder has been around $450K. If you want a condo or town home in Boulder, you're looking at about $270K and that's probably going to be on the out skirts of town and built in the early 90s.

There's also permanently affordable housing. They are subsidized properties that you have to qualify to purchase, but you can't re-sell them for more than you bought them for. I've always made too much money to qualify, even right out of undergrad with a BS.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by JPKab on Friday September 16, 2016 @05:40PM (#12517561)
What's hilarious is that I make six figures, but because I have two kids and my wife is a stay-at-home mom, I'm "poor" enough to qualify.

However, like all programs like this that are a stupid fucking band-aid for NIMBY assholes interfering with the free market, they are neverr enough. It's an incredibly long line of people trying to get each home, and might as well be a lottery. These programs don't help the people they claim to. They are nothing more than ways for rich hippies to feel a little better after they vote for policies that set de-facto financial segregation firmly into place.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by m103forme on Thursday September 15, 2016 @05:50PM (#12510133)
I recently moved back to the area from NorCal. Initially, 40% of my income was going to rent for a studio on the outskirts of Boulder. It's insane. Now I live with my SO and thankfully that's down to around 15%. I can't even imagine finding a place to buy now.
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by dsfyu404ed on Thursday September 15, 2016 @07:42PM (#12510792)
Someone call the CDC. Whatever California's got appears to be contagious.
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by michaelcampbell on Thursday September 15, 2016 @10:43PM (#12511520)
I believe most call it "demand".
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by justinjlynn on Friday September 16, 2016 @06:35AM (#12513025)
At one point, tulips were in "demand" as well -- bubbles and other irrational market behaviours are endemic to most economic systems.
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by mywittyname on Friday September 16, 2016 @12:56PM (#12515386)
You're talking about speculative bubbles. The high housing prices are not driven by speculation, they are driven by supply constraints.

People aren't buying houses to flip in six months, they are buying them to hold onto long-term. It's pretty clear that public policy isn't going to shift towards affordable housing any time soon. So the only options are: continue to pay high rents and wait for people to lose their jobs/homes so they can be bought cheaper, or buy now and hope you don't become one of the former.

If we start seeing houses sold multiple times in the same year, or people starting buying homes that they clearly can't afford, then we have a problem. But I don't see evidence that is where the US is. The housing shortage is ensuring that only those top earners are competing. Price are driven up by the fact that the top 20% of buyers can afford to outspend the bottom 80% on housing by a factor of 5 or more.

An additional $500/mo can cover another 100k for a 30 year mortgage. A couple making around $10k/mo after taxes can spend $5k/mo on a mortgage and still live comfortably while a median income couple earning maybe $4k/mo can only spend $2k/mo before things get tight. So, the high income couple can easily afford a million dollar mortgage, but could stretch that to $1.2MM if they really had to while the median earner can only spend $400k MAX.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by JPKab on Friday September 16, 2016 @05:36PM (#12517538)
I live in Broomfield. It's 100% affordable, and its pleasant. My son likes his schools, and Boulder is a short drive away anytime we want to visit. I see no reason to blow extreme amounts of money on a townhouse so I can have the luxury of having to be stuck in a rich town that excludes poor people for the sake of "open space". Housing policies like Boulder's aren't liberal, they're greedy. But hey, when I take my son hiking in Chattaqua, we get to count how many Tesla Model S and X's we see as a game.
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by madengr on Thursday September 15, 2016 @04:49PM (#12509699)
Yeah, inquiring minds would like to know. I'm in Boulder right now for a conference, and looking at Zillow, it's f'ing insane. Prices seem to start at $1M.
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by gacba on Thursday September 15, 2016 @06:20PM (#12510330)
Lived in Boulder County for 15 years until I got married and moved south of Denver.

Boulder itself has ALWAYS been expensive (even when I was in college in the early 90s) for housing. If you're serious about relocating, look at some less insane, but very close communities that the majority of the "Boulderites" live in:

NORTH: - Longmont - Gunbarrel

EAST: - Louisville - Lafayette - Erie

SOUTHEAST-ish: - Broomfield - Westminster - Northglenn - Thornton

You can have a "reasonable" commute, and a less insane house price in those areas. They are all bedroom communities for the area... Personally, I lived in Louisville and Lafayette at least half of my time in the county (the other in Boulder proper, renting, always).

There are always options.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by sporkenfang on Thursday September 15, 2016 @06:58PM (#12510563)
Yeah I'm finding it's basically impossible to purchase a house inside the city limits. Last weekend I saw an 850k two bedroom cottage on a half acre in Boulder, and a three bedroom (nearly twice as large, had a full basement) house on a full acre near downtown Longmont right off the BOLT line for 400k. It's not worth the price to live in Boulder when I can live 20 minutes away with enough room. Plus Longmont has fiber!
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by m103forme on Thursday September 15, 2016 @05:46PM (#12510098)
Buying inside of Boulder is a bit insane right now, hell most of Colorado is, and it's just amplified by the lack of supply in Boulder (no new building for 20-30 some years I think).

Check out Gunbarrel, it's about 7 minutes away from Boulder and is still somewhat reasonable. Although my SO bought her 30yr old condo for $165K in the Fall of 2014 and Zillow is now saying 302K, LOL.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by Torgo on Thursday September 15, 2016 @12:36PM (#12507574)
It's still hard to get good Internet in many rural-ish areas, which makes this really hard. I tried, multiple times.

We were supposed to get a modern "rural electrification project" in the 90s for broadband, but cable companies stole the money, aided and abetted by Congress.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by protomyth on Thursday September 15, 2016 @01:35PM (#12508108)
> It's still hard to get good Internet in many rural-ish areas, which makes this really hard. I tried, multiple times.

Depends, REI has better internet for ND than anything I've seen elsewhere. Some of the rural telephone companies do quite well. Its really luck of the draw.

> We were supposed to get a modern "rural electrification project" in the 90s for broadband, but cable companies stole the money, aided and abetted by Congress.

The key part of the last bill that killed it was the requirement that "broadband speeds" were not available in an area. The bill didn't specify a minimum price or that its was universal to the area. So, it pretty much killed a lot of attempts because broadband is available for $1,000 a month.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by cellularmitosis on Thursday September 15, 2016 @02:40PM (#12508642)
This is changing somewhat now with the advent of WISP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_Internet_service_prov...

My parents are just about to install an 80' tower on their rural property, because a local WISP is the only unmetered option available.

I feel like the cellular revolution has really crippled itself by virtue of nearly all "cellular wifi hot spot" plans being data capped to some number of GB per month. There's just so much culture I can't share with my parents if they can't spare the data to watch online video.

This situation becomes only more frustrating each time you hear about a provider upgrading their network to an even faster technology. "Cool, so now I can exhaust my monthly data plan in... 10 minutes?".

(Somewhat similar to the frustration of seeing Apple make thinner and thinner devices, rather than throwing in a bigger battery -- is this really what your customers want?)

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by esaym on Thursday September 15, 2016 @03:49PM (#12509238)
My experience with a local WISP was so-so. Perhaps there are better technologies now, but what mine used was a white labeled version of the Motorola Canopy PMP (point to multi-point)

I was told 8mbs down and 2mbs up. That worked great for about 6 months and then it started to degrade month by month. I assume as more people subscribed to the service. By the end of 3 years I was only getting about 2mbs down and 700kbs up. (at 3am I might get 5/1). Worked ok for browsing facebook, but the main issue was really bad packet loss on the upstream end.

Through reading many of the administrator manuals for the antennas I found online, I came to the conclusion that it was just bad technology and exacerbated by inappropriate default settings. The gist of the way the canopy protocol works is that it is very easy for the AP to transmit data to an end point. The problem is how the data is transmitted to the AP from the customer end point device.

It must first send a request to send (RTS) and then wait for the OK. By default the AP's are set to 10 miles line of sight, which adds in even more delay for the timings. The end result is for a busy AP, most of the RTS requests will be ignored. Which works ok for browsing the net, but I was getting 5-20% packet loss on upstream, which basically meant talking to people on my voip office phone sounded fine to me, but people on the other end only heard bits and pieces of what I was saying. Trying to VPN into work was very painful too.

I dealt with that for 3 years before I finally realized that ATT had 6mbs dsl for $60 a month. I switched and was so happy.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by jauer on Thursday September 15, 2016 @10:56PM (#12511552)
WISP quality is very uneven. It's rare to find one that has the right combination of business acumen, network engineering, and rf engineering to run successfully...

IME when correctly configured Canopy is one of the most robust last mile fixed-wireless systems on the market (though LTE may change that), but it has to be configured correctly.

The main feature of Canopy is GPS synchronization of tx/rx timeslots so you can reuse spectrum. A lot of WISPs bought it for that and then never changed settings because they didn't understand how the sync worked and didn't want to change a setting that alters timeslots and break sync. Never mind that there is a built-in calculator to help you figure that out...

Getting 5-20% packet loss upstream indicated they were doing something terribly wrong. Perhaps they screwed up timeslots and the AP received interference from other APs causing errors when listening for your SM, perhaps they didn't add control frames after their subscriber count significantly increased, or they simply oversubscribed the AP. The most widely deployed Canopy version (gen2 PMP100, came out in 2004 and still widely deployed) could handle up to 10Mbps down & 4Mbps up. Selling 8M/2M plans on that platform is a bit ambitious but unfortunately all too common.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by skrebbel on Thursday September 15, 2016 @02:12PM (#12508415)
> It's still hard to get good Internet in many rural-ish areas, which makes this really hard. I tried, multiple times.

Try rural Sweden.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by driverdan on Thursday September 15, 2016 @11:39PM (#12511667)
I guess it depends on how rural you are and the companies that service the area. For as much as Comcast deserves its hate they provide my parents in rural MA with fast cable internet. We weren't even able to get cable when I was growing up there and part of their road is still dirt.
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by epalmer on Thursday September 15, 2016 @12:51PM (#12507707)
> We were supposed to get a modern "rural electrification project" in the 90s for broadband, but cable companies stole the money, aided and abetted by Congress.

This is sad but not unexpected since politics and big companies play in this space.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by flukus on Thursday September 15, 2016 @11:23PM (#12511626)
Do we need good internet? Most of the time we're dealing with text (code, email, irc) etc. It seems like most of the work could be done over dial up with the occasional trip to somewhere with faster internet.
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by bdavisx on Thursday September 15, 2016 @12:41PM (#12507616)
>> Personally, I dislike places where people are provincial and close-minded, so I'll stick to the rural countryside and leave SF to the bigots.

>I visit some of those places and many have a beautiful setting, everyone knows each other, there is a sense of a community. It is quiet.

Depending on what part of the country you're talking about, many of those beautiful small communities are very bigoted also -- and not just in the South.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by commandar on Thursday September 15, 2016 @02:29PM (#12508548)
And the south isn't bigoted in the ways many people assume.

There are absolutely small towns where open discrimination is a problem. And there are absolutely small minded jerks that have a problem with people of color.

But what I've observed personally living in the south and travelling the country is that the south is often less functionally segregated than other areas of the country. It's sheer demographics if nothing else; when the population of many major southern cities are majority minority, then it's difficult for people to avoid living and working next to each other.

Where the dynamic gets really interesting because of all this is with people that want to fight inequality, but don't realize that they have a massive blindspot when it comes to what functional racism looks like because they don't actually live in functionally diverse environments.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by dsfyu404ed on Thursday September 15, 2016 @07:51PM (#12510851)
>There are absolutely small towns where open discrimination is a problem. And there are absolutely small minded jerks that have a problem with people of color. Eh, IMO it's still more palatable than a whole metropolitan area that prides itself on superficial diversity PCism.

>But what I've observed personally living in the south and travelling the country is that the south is often less functionally segregated than other areas of the country. It's sheer demographics if nothing else; when the population of many major southern cities are majority minority, then it's difficult for people to avoid living and working next to each other.

Functional racism (or any other "ism" tends to follow groups with enough wealth to insulate themselves from people who are different and people who have so little that they need to be reassured that no matter how little they have they're always better than someone.

>Where the dynamic gets really interesting because of all this is with people that want to fight inequality, but don't realize that they have a massive blindspot when it comes to what functional racism looks like because they don't actually live in functionally diverse environments.

This. It's like a bunch of 5th graders debating foreign policy.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by chetanahuja on Thursday September 15, 2016 @06:16PM (#12510295)
"And the south isn't bigoted in the ways many people assume."

Only if there was some sort of a "survey" on people's attitudes in different parts of the country. Perhaps people with competing ideologies would represent one side or another and then the general public would decide to pick one of those choices to represent the majority view from that area. This way we'd actually know what a majority of the population in a given state/region believes.

Of course it would suck for the reputation of a certain part of the country where bigoted, white supremacist people keep getting the majority votes year after year, decade after decade. But I guess that reputation would be well deserved if those representatives keep winning so consistently for so long a time.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by alttab on Thursday September 15, 2016 @09:39PM (#12511342)
What people believe isn't always what people DO. When I lived in Texas for 7 years I was surprised to find that Texans can make fun of "beaners" and then respect their work ethic and hire them over "lazy white people who want to get paid more."

It's a mix that requires. A different lense that most don't have.

I grew up in liberal DC, and then went to texas. I'm now up north again, but my view of the south has changed dramatically.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by commandar on Thursday September 15, 2016 @10:42PM (#12511519)
I just want you to know that you've highlighted my point far better than I did.

From the responses I've gotten, I feel like people think I'm saying the south doesn't have very real problems with race. It does. But the daily reality is much closer to what you're describing.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by chetanahuja on Friday September 16, 2016 @06:13PM (#12517764)
"What people believe isn't always what people DO."

I wish I could 1984 myself this throughly. My life will get so much easier.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by commandar on Thursday September 15, 2016 @09:18PM (#12511257)
You've pretty much entirely missed my point.

I explicitly acknowledged that there are absolutely still real problems with race in the south. Things like the state of Alabama implementing voter ID laws and then shutting down DMV offices in poor black counties absolutely happen.

But what I was talking about was functional racism in terms of daily life. While many southerners absolutely say and support shitty things, it's not on the level of mid 20th century Jim Crow and other parts of the country aren't the relative panacea they perceive themselves to be. In completely functional terms, many of those areas are more racially segregated and/or isolated than the south.

Again, when demographically many cities are majority minority, there's more of an intermixing by necessity. That leads to blindspot in perspective of people that don't live in those environments that they don't even realize they have.

It's not limited to race; there's a similar very real problem in the media business where there's an inherent bias toward jobs going to the children of already affluent families that academically understand poverty, but don't fully understand how poverty functionally affects people because it's never been an inherent part of their lives.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by chetanahuja on Friday September 16, 2016 @06:11PM (#12517740)
"Things like the state of Alabama implementing voter ID laws and then shutting down DMV offices in poor black counties"

"But what I was talking about was functional racism in terms of daily life"

I think you're the one missing the point here. If disenfranchising a large part of the population based on their race, by politicians who more or less campaign on this sort of platform (though in coded language) and win elections repeatedly is not "functional racism", I don't know what is. And of course you know very well that voting rights is not an isolated case of the racism exhibited by southern states.

That is not to say that only the southern states have racist people but what this sort of blatant, racist policy-making at the highest level is signalling to people of minority races is to stay away from those states altogether if you can. There's a reason immigrant communities are strongest in states like California and NewYork and not Alabama or Mississippi.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by serge2k on Thursday September 15, 2016 @03:36PM (#12509130)
> And the south isn't bigoted in the ways many people assume

Is it "assuming" when you base your opinion on things said by federal courts?

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by pessimizer on Thursday September 15, 2016 @04:40PM (#12509641)
I'm from Chicago, which isn't a small town and isn't in the south, and the federal courts have had plenty to say. What have the federal courts had to say about every small town in the south again?
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by pessimizer on Thursday September 15, 2016 @04:38PM (#12509628)
This entire subthread is just stereotype bingo. Small communities are numerous and diverse.
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by rdtsc on Thursday September 15, 2016 @01:43PM (#12508174)
Agreed. That's a good point. Quite often poverty makes the situation worse, it radicalizes people and enhances the bigotry.
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by bovermyer on Thursday September 15, 2016 @01:48PM (#12508210)
Poverty isn't tied directly to bigotry. Rather, a lack of new ideas and mindsets in close proximity can present an environment conducive to the development of bigotry (or its less malicious cousin, ignorance).
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by dsfyu404ed on Thursday September 15, 2016 @07:53PM (#12510863)
Believing that no matter how bad your life is you're still better than someone else by virtue of race becomes more tempting the closer you are to rock bottom.
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by bovermyer on Friday September 16, 2016 @02:24PM (#12516114)
What data are you basing this claim on?
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by rdtsc on Thursday September 15, 2016 @08:05PM (#12510946)
Well that disagrees with what I have seen. You can say it is correlation and that those are somehow born with the biggot gene can't escape poverty. I think it works the other way, poverty amplifies and accentuates biggotry, rasim, sexims and any other -ism.

This is based on living in other countries, mostly in US though, in both poor and rich communities, some were diverse poor and diverse rich.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by bovermyer on Friday September 16, 2016 @02:25PM (#12516120)
Anecdotal evidence is a poor basis for an argument.
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by norea-armozel on Thursday September 15, 2016 @12:24PM (#12507459)
If I could get a reliable car so I could get to a metro when I needed to see an endocrinologist I would definitely do my work remotely from a rural community. I know that parts of Kansas have FTTH (it's not gigabit but it's reliable and has no datacaps) which are very cheap to live in.

Edit: It looks like Nex-Tech now offers gigabit internet. It's around $200 a month with cable and phone but to be fair it's rural Kansas. I use to pay $65 for their 10/5 when that was the mid-tier Internet only package. So they've really improved their service.

Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by gozur88 on Thursday September 15, 2016 @05:34PM (#12509997)
Depending on where you start you could easily save $200 in housing by moving to a rural area.
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by bigtex on Thursday September 15, 2016 @02:50PM (#12508727)
I have business class internet in a rural community in Tx. Advertised speed in 10/2 but I usually get around 20/2 for $100/month. It is fixed wireless.
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by sfifs on Thursday September 15, 2016 @03:10PM (#12508907)
Is this high price due to rural or is it normal range for the U.S? In Mumbai India I pay about 30USD a month for 50/5 and there are fibre providers in places like Bangalore that are much cheaper.
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by norea-armozel on Thursday September 15, 2016 @03:23PM (#12509021)
Rural is usually higher in my experience. Especially if you live very far from any small city (25k-100k) like where I lived in western Kansas. It was jarring when it came to prices on everything from groceries to utilities. It's still cheaper on the whole if you have a reasonable salary (50-60k is the minimum IMO). The only big down side I think to rural communities in the US is the extreme isolation due to physical distance between towns and cities which is why so many people avoid them. IMO, if you go rural in the US it's best to pick a smaller town that's no more than 250 miles away from a metro. Getting any further away is just asking for cabin fever (if you grew up in any sizable city).
Re:Old Geek Jobs: fighting against ageism in the industry by beachstartup on Thursday September 15, 2016 @11:55AM (#12507191)
it's happening more and more as the 90s and 00s veterans get older and want more land/space/whatever.

the recent trend in insane housing prices has definitely accelerated it, just from my circle of anecdotes.