E.g. I want to buy a Tesla and I don't have the money. I say to myself : "Now it's not the time." instead of "Let's save some money!".

If you have millions and you want to buy 10 cars, then I think you have a problem with your ego.

You have your basic expenses you need to live (food, shelter, water), which cost most people at least tens of thousands per year.

If you live miserably only allowing money out to expense those needs, you're still only saving tens of thousands.

You have a lot more ability to increase money coming in than money going out.

I think this is the point OP's father was trying to make. Don't get stuck in a loop of allowing your employer to pay you $xx,xxx (or $1xx,xxx) for decades and restrict yourself for your whole life just to retire old and live an average lifestyle. Take control of your life and control your success.

Example: earn $100k, $35k goes to taxes, spend $50k a year = $15k discretionary. Increase income 50% to $150k, taxes become $52.5k, spend the same $50k = $47.5k discretionary. So total income only increased by 1.5, but discretionary increased by a factor of 3. Of course, this is a simplistic example -- tax rates aren't constant for one thing. But the principle is very powerful, and the effect strength grows as the income increases. Using the above numbers, 2x the initial salary results in a 5x increase in discretionary income.

Lastly, this strategy also provides great protection against a decrease in income.

Secondly, though there is no upper limit to how much you can earn it rarely works that way in the real world. People who are not saving money are doing it for many psychological reasons, like being unable to resist the temptation to spend on things. And most of the times they don't like it after they do it.

For most people on HN I'm not so sure, most roles have a ceiling that is very difficult to get above without moving into upper management or starting your own business. The odds don't look so good then.

On the other hand having some FU money will improve your quality of life significantly. Just being able to say no to that morally questionable feature your boss is asking you to implement or turning down a weekends work when you want to go to a friends wedding has a strong impact on your well being.

Having savings and investments means having choices, having debts imprisons people.

I know someone who carefully plans and then spreads the weekly shopping trip between up to five different grocery stores -- and also complains that they have too little time. I and several others have tried connecting the dots for them, but it's clearly become an obsession (and needless to say, it's not like they track their spending and saving on this -- just assumes that they are saving loads).

Obviously, there are things that make sense. Of course you should shop around and negotiate for big-ticket items. It might well make sense to alternate weekly shopping trips between two different stores with different strengths (one might be good for fresh produce, but expensive for staples and household goods etc).

> For most people on HN I'm not so sure, most roles have a ceiling that is very difficult to get above without [...] starting your own business

Hacking on a side project is one of the things you could do once you stop spending hours saving dollars.

But, the point is, time is a strictly limited resource. Money has steeply diminishing returns around those ceilings. Stop wasting time saving small amounts of money and spend it getting the most out of your time (whether that's working on your revenue streams, or doing any of a number of activities that makes you happy).

Hacking on ever recurring side project can also be a huge time sink, especially since projects tend to have a disproportionate reward at the end.

Considering we're on a Site Formerly Known as Startup News, starting your own business should definitely be a real option.

I cannot relate to the extreme savings world that isn't necessary. For example, I had a friend who made much more than me but quite enjoyed the 'optimization' or 'life hacks' mentality including reducing his electrical expenses throughout his house, living in a studio, being vegan and finding tricks to spending no money on stuff. He had a system where the farm would deliver (in NYC) organic produce based on what was available seasonally, for a subscription fee, making his food experience cheap. He would sign up to those free loans the banks would give, the ones where they'd send a check and you had no interest for 8 months, and he'd put it in a CD for exactly 8 months to pocket the interest and pay it back. etc. And he made a lot more money than me (and still does).

I can't live like that. On the other hand, I'm not the impulsive/blind spender that needs a wife/husband/'life hacks'/software to keep his spending under control. I'm also a privileged tech worker with a comfortable (but not braggable) income.

That said, a lot of people are completely stupid with money. Some people will try to save money by cutting expenses everywhere and then, for example, proceed to overpay €10-20-50k on a house. Or not negotiate high random fees, ever.

Either you go with low fee index funds (i.e. Vanguard S&P500, which tracks the market and will require the least amount of effort) or you learn about investing by putting in the time to understand things properly (which might lead to higher returns but can take a lifetime).

i like macro-economics and treat it as a hobby.

others that may have little interest in the subject could take a simple route.

25% gold/silver 25% blue chip dividend or index fund 25% property or rental 25% in your business or hobby, if you spend/invest in what you know and like will usually do well same with work do what you have passion and ability=success

if #3 and 4 dont apply just put 20% gold/silver and 80% in 10 different good dividend paying blue chip. why gold and silver?? because inflation protection against fiat currency. another note now not the time to by stocks, now is time to sell. buy after next correction.

thanks

It's almost impossible to fill a container leaking all the time.

Also make note a lot of people have gotten rich by saving and investing than have people who went into doing start ups or 'revenue stream' or such.

The best payoff is spending the money. However there is a "poverty" mentality where people would be scared of spending that money. You need to avoid that.

On the other hand you could buy a gimmicky fancy tv or keep your decent old one. Obviously just keep your old one.

Just optimise for the best expected payoff. For that you require a mix of saving, and spending.

People just take it to far...you can only cut thing so far before it screws up your lifestyle so yeah after cutting the obvious its about more revenue as you say.

Rather than worrying about optimizing spending I find it much easier to maximize my earning potential. Negotiating a better salary will often net one more money over time than chasing coupons.

I was not going into explicit detail, but pontificating on the idea of saving as opposed to spending.

With that said, one of my banks offered me a 3.00% APY on a CD the other day. Still not really enough for me. I would prefer to throw the money in index funds and wait longer.

There was a time I bought a Mac book pro. I felt it would save me developer time and focus compared to my old HP laptop. So I set out to earn that money back in 6 months (did it in 4). I feel like this complete approach helps.

A penny saved is a penny earned.