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Re:AI, Apple and Google by eridius on Thursday June 23, 2016 @11:14PM (#11966039)
> After all, Apple Maps has 3x more users than Google Maps on the iPhone and Google Maps is definitely better.

That's a pretty bold statement. When Apple Maps first launched this was certainly true. But Apple Maps has improved significantly since then, to the point where whether Apple Maps or Google Maps is better depends on where you are and what data you're trying to find.

Re:AI, Apple and Google by sgslo on Thursday June 23, 2016 @11:53PM (#11966188)
In San Antonio, Texas, last week, I used Apple Maps to search for 'two brothers bbq'. The actual name of the establishment is 'two bros bbq' or similar. Apple maps decided to give me results from Europe as the first few in the result set. Why in the world would I want directions to Europe while in Texas? Google maps, of course, picked it up on the first try.

One other thing - while in navigation mode with Apple maps, try panning the map around, or even zooming. Let me know how that goes.

Re:AI, Apple and Google by addicted on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:32AM (#11966477)
I don't get how Apple Maps decides to show locations in other continents when it is unable to find a a match locally.

And Apple's inability to do any sort of decent fuzzy matching is legion.

Re:AI, Apple and Google by jolux on Friday June 24, 2016 @01:22AM (#11966790)
Apple Music can't resolve ampersands to and and vice versa. Disaster.
Re:AI, Apple and Google by TeMPOraL on Friday June 24, 2016 @06:30AM (#11968543)
A wild guess - maybe someone else (Google) has some crucial patents on fuzzy matching? I know it's probably not the case, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it was true...
Re:AI, Apple and Google by modfodder on Friday June 24, 2016 @01:48PM (#11971895)
When I look for places near my neighborhood in Greenpoint Brooklyn, Google Maps pulls up places in New Jersey about 30% of the time, even if I type in the exact name of the place several blocks away. I haven't been to NJ in years (and only a handful of times).

And last time I was in Palo Alto using Google Maps to find a dry cleaners, it sent me on a 20 minute goose chase, and had me going in circles. On the third try of reentering the address (using copy/paste all three times, all 3 times the address was identical) it finally game me an accurate route.

I still use Google Maps more than Apple maps mainly because of the subway/bus integration and because I've been using it for so long, but in my anecdotal experience Apple Maps isn't any worse than Google Maps and has been less irritating when it's wrong than Google (although I use Google more).

Re:AI, Apple and Google by drakenot on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:16AM (#11966351)
I think they announced that the panning/zooming issue is resolved with the Apple Maps in iOS10. So hopefully that will be one less annoyance.
Re:AI, Apple and Google by asd on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:46AM (#11966578)
>I think they announced that the panning/zooming issue is resolved with the Apple Maps in iOS10.

I wish this were the case. I'm running the iOS 10 beta on a 6S+ and gave Maps several seconds to load this area of upstate NY.

http://i.imgur.com/wi7HRqe.jpg

The dark gray grid persists. Yea, it's the first beta, but I have mostly only noticed changes in the interface and not the actual map data.

Re:AI, Apple and Google by glhaynes on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:43PM (#11971272)
I believe that's a different problem than was being discussed, which was that while driving directions are being shown on Maps on pre-iOS 10, it maddeningly only lets you pan/zoom a slight amount before snapping back to a zoomed-in, myopic-feeling view of your current location.
Re:AI, Apple and Google by asd on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:45PM (#11971298)
Ah, I see now. Sorry about that. Yes, that problem is fixed. You can now zoom out and explore while directions are shown.
Re:AI, Apple and Google by hrktb on Friday June 24, 2016 @03:17AM (#11967427)
While I understand your frustration, it made me think I need to give Apple Maps a new chance.

Be it in search or in maps, google services are auto correcting so much stuff. You can be in France and search for 'Akita', and the first result will be some japanese restaurant that happen to have the keyword in the name, with the more reputable and perfect match half a screen below.

Of course a lot of user might actually be looking for restaurants, but it's so frustrating this moment where you have to think "I really mean what I typed in this box" and going through the "what was the syntax to value more the keyword".

And then as it detects your preferences the behavior changes and you are left wondering what's happening (like how do I explicitely ask for local search to be prioritized ?)

It feels less and less like a tool and more like a pet engine you have to teach fetching the mail.

Re:AI, Apple and Google by oiojdfg999898 on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:27AM (#11966440)
Piling on this, Apple maps is absolute shit in Japan. Google pretty much seamlessly operates between English (romaji alphabet) and Japanese names for the same place.
Re:AI, Apple and Google by kartD on Friday June 24, 2016 @08:42AM (#11969314)
Hardly a point, I've had GMaps do the same thing to me in India and the US and Apple found the place just fine. If we were comparing GMaps of 4-5 years then yes, it was far and away better, but now it seems to hae regressed and Apple maps has caught up for most use cases
Re:AI, Apple and Google by AJ007 on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:32PM (#11971139)
Anecdotally, both Google and Apple maps have fail points. Up until very recently I would always try to double check Google Map's pin of a location from another source because it would be flat out wrong at least 10% of the time.

The more interesting thing to me now is seeing what OpenStreetMap and Mapbox are doing. Their combined trajectories may end up surpassing both Google and Apply. Mass produced drones along 3D scanning tools and improved 2D->3D imagery tech could provide for very comprehensive and open map data with all kinds of layers of usage far beyond geo coordinates, lanes, and street sign data.

Re:AI, Apple and Google by nikanj on Friday June 24, 2016 @02:26PM (#11972184)
I have seen the opposite happen quite often: small mom-and-pop place doesn't want to pay Google, so they can only be found with Apple maps. Google maps makes money by squeezing business owners, Apple maps makes money by selling more iPhones.
Re:AI, Apple and Google by Oletros on Saturday June 25, 2016 @01:30PM (#11977122)
Are you saying that Google doesn't list a place in the maps if they don't pay?

Do you have any source for that? Thanks

Re:AI, Apple and Google by honkhonkpants on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:01AM (#11966241)
Yeah, for example Google Maps is good for people who are actually looking for something while Apple Maps is perfect for those who don't care what's on the map.

I kid, but only sort of. Apple Maps has serious data freshness problems. For years they listed businesses in a building that had long-since been demolished. Looking around in my Oakland neighborhood, Apple Maps is missing two new streets. Google has an indoor map of the BART station, Apple doesn't. Etc.

Re:AI, Apple and Google by asd on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:32AM (#11966483)
>... whether Apple Maps or Google Maps is better depends on where you are and what data you're trying to find.

I've given Apple Maps several chances to delight me since 2012 and have submitted multiple bug reports and feature requests. While the product has improved significantly, it needs a few years of development to match the current offerings from Google. The inaccuracies in the search results for local businesses/parks/points of interest is unacceptable and should be a priority for the Maps team if Apple has any intention of feeding data into a device that will take humans from point A -⇒ B -⇒ C. Also, not being able to create waypoints/multi-leg routes is simply unacceptable in 2016. For most Apple Maps users, I suspect it takes only one shitty search result page for them to give up and use Google Maps.

There are some deep, systemic issues that Apple needs to address:

1) The accuracy and freshness of their data

2) The ability to return fast, intelligent search results from their data

3) Siri's ability to understand user intention when being asked for location data and directions

I'm rooting for Apple, I really am - It just seems that they are having a rough time catching the tailwinds of Google.

Re:AI, Apple and Google by addicted on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:31AM (#11966465)
If you leave the US, Google Maps is orders of magnitude better. If you commute anyway other than by car, Google Maps is orders of magnitude better.

So basically, Apple is slightly competitive if you are driving a car within the US, but even there it's probably a lot worse in the aggregate.

And Flyover is not even close to being as useful as Street View.

Re:AI, Apple and Google by eridius on Friday June 24, 2016 @02:15AM (#11967102)
I don't own a car, and Google Maps was absolute shit for MUNI here in SF. Specifically, Google Maps would pretend that there was a schedule and give you directions accordingly, but if you actually tried to follow the directions you'd get to the bus stop and find out that you need to wait 15 minutes for the next bus instead of the 1 minute Google Maps thought. At this point it's been several years since I've used Google Maps, because I eventually decided there was literally zero benefit to keeping it on my phone when I always ended up using Apple Maps for everything.
Re:AI, Apple and Google by 2sk21 on Friday June 24, 2016 @08:19AM (#11969148)
Very similar story in New York. CityMapper seems to work best in urban areas.
Re:AI, Apple and Google by koalaman on Friday June 24, 2016 @11:52AM (#11970751)
Google Maps transit directions are pretty amazing from my experience in NYC.

I grabbed a bus a couple of days ago because maps had a live update that it was just 1 minute away from me.

Re:AI, Apple and Google by cageface on Friday June 24, 2016 @01:57AM (#11966999)
This applies to Apple's stuff in general. If you live in the US and mostly interact with Americans it works well. If you live elsewhere or communicate with people outside the US then Maps, iMessage, and the stock Apple keyboard will find their way to your junk folder.
Re:AI, Apple and Google by ghshephard on Friday June 24, 2016 @03:09AM (#11967383)
That's not entirely true - even though 99% of the people I work with outside the US (Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Brazil, Kolkata, Mexico) use Whatsapp, there is a tendency to start comms off with SMS before moving over to Whatsapp (no idea why). So - in the event (about 20% of the time, astonishingly enough - but it could be bias for the people I work with) the person talking to me has an iPhone we start off with iMessage. And of course, the other 80% of the time it's SMS coming through iMessage. So, iMessage has it's place initiating conversations. After that it's a [pick your regional chat app that isn't iMessage] .

I'm stunned at the number of people who use Apple Maps in Singapore. Google Maps is much better here - but about 50-70% of the people I know who have an iPhone just use the Map App that is installed on it. Kills me.

I don't know any english speakers with an iPhone who have changed out their keyboard - I've played with the others, but perhaps it's a foreign language thing?

Re:AI, Apple and Google by cageface on Friday June 24, 2016 @03:51AM (#11967630)
iPhone stock keyboard is horrible for foreign languages, and just flat out doesn't offer auto suggest for a lot of them. And since their third party keyboard API is still very buggy after two major iOS releases you really don't have any good alternatives.

My experience is mostly focused on SE Asia but nobody here sends an SMS if they can help it at all. They're fairly expensive, especially given that monthly 3g plans are as cheap as $3. Whatsapp, Facebook and Viber own messaging here.

Re:AI, Apple and Google by stephenr on Friday June 24, 2016 @11:01AM (#11970280)
I have literally never seen anyone using anything but the stock keyboard in iOS, and I live in Thailand, surrounded by locals who more often than not don't speak English.

Line is popular here, but only because it has stickers and iMessage doesn't.

Re:AI, Apple and Google by eridius on Friday June 24, 2016 @02:32PM (#11972230)
> iPhone stock keyboard is horrible for foreign languages, and just flat out doesn't offer auto suggest for a lot of them.

That's not true. Why do you say that? I've used the foreign keyboards for Spanish and for Korean, and both keyboards are excellent and offer good autocorrect. I've also never heard anyone complain about the foreign keyboards being bad before.

Re:AI, Apple and Google by draw_down on Friday June 24, 2016 @12:03AM (#11966254)
I wish he was wrong but Google's is definitely better. It's ridiculous the shit Apple's app gets wrong, still. Search for Swedish food and get sent to Sweden.
Re:AI, Apple and Google by inglondon on Friday June 24, 2016 @03:21AM (#11967444)
I spent a couple days in Idaho this week and went on a few hikes. Google Maps had all the trails accurately mapped while Apple Maps was just a blank space with no information whatsoever. I don't know if it's a personal preference by now but I've also tried to use Apple Maps in cities around the US and Europe but always end up reverting to Google Maps because of their interface and search functions.
Re:AI, Apple and Google by capkutay on Friday June 24, 2016 @03:48AM (#11967612)
Apple can't even keep up with streets in major US cities. For instance, Long Bridge st in San Francisco does not exist according to Apple maps despite appearing in Google maps and open street maps.