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Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by jimhefferon on Thursday June 23, 2016 @06:30AM (#11959948)
But in this case exactly what they are protesting is that the leadership of the Republican party will not bring the measure up for debate and vote.
Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by bilbo0s on Thursday June 23, 2016 @06:46AM (#11960016)
I realize this may sound like an ignorant question but I really don't know the rules in Congress.

Can you just refuse to discuss a topic at all ? I mean... is that legal ?

Like the original comment said, the purpose of a body like the congress is to "...debate an issue, vote on it, and then to enact the result of the vote..." At least, I thought that was how things worked. Is it the case that congress doesn't even consider debating certain issues ?

Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by masklinn on Thursday June 23, 2016 @08:27AM (#11960380)
> Can you just refuse to discuss a topic at all ? I mean... is that legal ?

It is legal yes. Each house of Congress gets to decide their own rules (by law), in the House of Representatives that is done by and through the Rules Committee.

Initially it would just propose general rules at the start of the session then dissolve, but in the late 19th some realised it could propose bill-specific "special rules" (requiring a simple majority vote) giving it significantly more power and control over House proceeedings, and that's basically what it has been since.

As a result, by controlling the Rules Committee the majority can decide which bills get to the floor (and when) regardless of their order on the Calendar of the House, can decide whether the bills can or can not be amended and can decide how much debate time will be available and who gets to talk.

Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by ericcumbee on Thursday June 23, 2016 @11:51PM (#11966181)
The issue is they wanted a vote. The Speaker will not give them one because it is pretty clear it would fail. The process of bringing something to a vote against the decision of the speaker is you have to get 218 member's signatures on a petition (in the case of getting a bill out of committee it is called a discharge petition.Not sure if that is what it is called in this case though).
Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by jimhefferon on Thursday June 23, 2016 @08:30AM (#11960391)
Hardly an expert myself but as I understand it the Speaker (the leader of the majority party) schedules what comes up for a vote. See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastert_Rule.
Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by grondilu on Thursday June 23, 2016 @06:43AM (#11960003)
If the Republican party prevented that vote inside the constraints of laws, procedures and whatnot, there is nothing to protest about.

In fact I agree with OP : politicians should never have to protest for anything. There are procedures to follow, and in politics who is right is not supposed to be whoever whines the most spectacularly.

If for one reason or an other the Democrats think the Republicans have used unlawful methods to prevent this vote, then they should file a complaint and be done with it. Not make some kind of a circus.

Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by scrollaway on Thursday June 23, 2016 @06:52AM (#11960051)
Are you really saying that the law cannot be protested?
Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by grondilu on Thursday June 23, 2016 @07:57AM (#11960277)
Politicians should never have to protest the Law since they make it.
Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by 2muchcoffeeman on Thursday June 23, 2016 @06:54AM (#11960067)
I mostly agree with you.

But I see no problem with a little civil disobedience. And I don't see why politicians can't engage in some of it occasionally.

Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by Cyph0n on Thursday June 23, 2016 @06:38AM (#11959981)
I'm astounded at how adamant many Americans are when it comes to even discussing gun control.
Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by brightball on Thursday June 23, 2016 @07:00AM (#11960088)
That's because the US homocide rate is at a 51 year low according to the FBI while gun ownership is dramatically higher.

We've had 2 terrorism incidents and we need to be addressing what could have prevented them. Every time an incident happens that gets on the news we see this song and dance about implementing gun control policies that wouldn't have stopped the incident being used to push them.

That means that Democrats aren't trying to solve a problem. They are simply waiting to use national tragedies to push an agenda.

Solving a problem looks like "here is how this happened and here is a policy that will make sure it doesn't again."

Democrats have not proposed anything along those lines in the last 8 years.

Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by whatok on Thursday June 23, 2016 @07:13AM (#11960132)
Agree with this 100%. No gun control law would have prevented this from happening in America solely because we have quite a few guns here. If not procured legally, he easily could buy a gun illegally. Constitution aside, if there was a way to magically disappear every gun in America and then enact complete gun bans I might be willing to entertain to the notion. Otherwise it's just a bunch of posturing to me.
Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by pigpaws on Thursday June 23, 2016 @07:55AM (#11960273)
the problem then would be that only the 'important' people would have guns. I don't see any politicians giving up their security details. I don't see Diane Feinstein or Chuck Schumer giving up their 'concealed carry' licenses. Its a classic "Do as I say, not as I do."

If they can carry in their overly restrictive states, why can't the electorate? don't they have the same rights? No? because political elitism.

Even in that bastion of fascism, NJ: http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/03/lawmaker_let_nj...

Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by ende on Thursday June 23, 2016 @11:39AM (#11961836)
Let's add to that the song and dance focused specifically around "assault rifles", which kill less people per year than knives, blunt objects, or bare hands. (The vast majority of gun deaths are by handgun, and are either suicides or gang violence.)
Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by Cyph0n on Thursday June 23, 2016 @07:23AM (#11960171)
The Orlando shooting was not a terrorist attack in the commonly used sense, as I assume you're referring to that.

The fact that the homicide rate is lower than it was doesn't mean it's at an acceptable level. Now I don't know whether or not gun control is the solution, but the issue needs to be discussed and not dismissed because with "because history".

Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by Nadya on Thursday June 23, 2016 @03:15PM (#11963643)
>The fact that the homicide rate is lower than it was doesn't mean it's at an acceptable level. Now I don't know whether or not gun control is the solution, but the issue needs to be discussed and not dismissed because with "because history".

Banning guns has had next-to-zero influence on the overall homicide rate of the U.K or Australia post-handgun bans/buybacks. [0] [1] [2] People continue to kill other people using other methods. Homicides with firearms goes down, homicides in general remains more or less the same, with the same downward trend that has been happening in all developed nations since the early 2000's/late 1990's.

IMO, America has a mental health problem. Nobody seeks help because help likely means loss of job/income which is disastrous for most everyone. I think there are other contributing factors (income inequality, mainstream/mass media fanning the flames for racial tensions, increasing distrust of the police) but none as large as mental health.

[0] http://i.imgur.com/HZ15hNX.png - Australia

[1] http://i.imgur.com/VxQ0fUN.png - England/Wales

[2] http://i.imgur.com/yabFAFf.png - U.K

Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by LyndsySimon on Thursday June 23, 2016 @02:04PM (#11963114)
> Orlando Police Dispatcher: Emergency 911, this is being recorded.

> Omar Mateen: In the name of God the Merciful, the beneficent [said in Arabic]

> OD: What?

> OM: Praise be to God, and prayers as well as peace be upon the prophet of God [said in Arabic]. I wanna let you know, I’m in Orlando and I did the shootings.

> OD: What’s your name?

> OM: My name is I pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi of the Islamic State.

How is the above "not a terrorist attack in the commonly used sense"? He's using violence against civilians as a means of demanding political action.

Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by Cyph0n on Thursday June 23, 2016 @04:04PM (#11963913)
He pledged allegiance to Al Nusra, Hezbollah, and IS; these three groups have been in constant conflict for the past several years. Sounds to me like he was doing it for the attention. I also heard that IS never actually acknowledged that he was one of their recruits.

I know it's hard to swallow, but Muslims can commit heinous acts for completely personal reasons - a jealous closet gay in this case.

Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by whatok on Thursday June 23, 2016 @08:08AM (#11960313)
Assuming all the background on him is factual, it absolutely was a terrorist attack on the gay community. Don't know how you can spin that one.
Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by Cyph0n on Thursday June 23, 2016 @08:27AM (#11960379)
I assume he was using the word "terrorist" as it has been used by the media over the years, not in the correct sense. Going with the latter, yes it was clearly a terrorist attack.

Going by the former, it was not - the attack was basically homophobic in nature, perpetrated by a closet homosexual who frequented that same gay bar and had no contact whatsoever with the Muslim community.

Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by ende on Thursday June 23, 2016 @11:35AM (#11961794)
You have to be muslim to be a terrorist?
Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by Cyph0n on Thursday June 23, 2016 @11:45AM (#11961887)
Of course not, but I'm talking about the Orlando shooting which was initially thought to be perpetrated in the name of Islam.

I'm a Muslim myself btw.

Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by brightball on Thursday June 23, 2016 @07:27AM (#11960184)
An easy way to start a discussion is with the words, "How could this have been prevented?"

That has not happened.

Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by LyndsySimon on Thursday June 23, 2016 @02:00PM (#11963091)
That's OK.

I will say that the GOP blocking these proposals is one of the very few times I've felt like anyone in the legislature is actually representing my beliefs.

Re:Gun-control protest sparks chaotic scenes in US Congress by onion2k on Thursday June 23, 2016 @06:39AM (#11959986)
I didn't realise that. I thought that there had already been some discussion. My more general point about how government works, and what representatives should and should not be able to do to subvert it, still stands though.