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Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by mvdwoord on Friday May 27, 2016 @05:59AM (#11784939)
I suspect that some sort of biologically driven urge to dominate the gene pool will keep humanity from ever reaching any form of utopia. As long as we are programmed to compete with each other, this will always reflect in the way society is organized. To me it seems that all of these utopian scenarios have in common that people allow others to be successful, expecting the same in return. This only works if everyone behaves this way and seems easy to abuse by people taking advantage of others. In other words, we don't need to worry about retaining unhappy feelings at work, others will make sure that you will remain unhappy at work. Or you will become someone that makes others unhappy at work. It may work on a small scale, here and there, but in general on a global scale I believe we are doomed to live in an endless cycle of evolutionary driven struggle of some sort. I do hope I am wrong, but in any case we are a long way from reaching it, socially, not so much technically. Which makes me a bit sad at times.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by Styx- on Friday May 27, 2016 @08:59AM (#11785680)
Pessimist! :)

I disagree. I think much of human suffering due to competition stems from lack of security, or the lack of reassurance that basic needs will be met.

Imagine a technological utopia. All of your needs as a human being are met. All of the needs of your friends and family are met. Can you not imagine how much easier it would be to advance toward a "social utopia"?

Before the Renaissance, the cut-throat psychotic human beings tended to do the best in terms of gathering resources, security, etc. Since the Renaissance, this has become less and less true and merit has started to take precedence.

Eventually, once the conditions for a technological utopia are met and for the majority of the population, it will be a like a light has suddenly been turned on. Those that have all of their basic needs met, tend to be nicer to others on the whole.

Besides, even if I'm wrong, it's not hard to imagine some sort of machine or system that short-circuits "our biologically driven urge to dominate the gene pool" for the good of humanity.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by FilterSweep on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:42AM (#11785945)
> I think much of human suffering due to competition stems from lack of security, or the lack of reassurance that basic needs will be met.

Good comment - there are two places I disagree with you:

1) See the hedonic treadmill theory[0]. You could point to someone, relatively speaking, who is on top of the world. But they are still unhappy. Why is this? It's sometimes theorized that we are at a "set point" in happiness, and while we can run faster on the treadmill, or slow down on the treadmill from time to time, we are stuck at this set level of happiness.

2) Surely the vast majority of the developed western world is not at a lack for "basic needs", but why is there so much anger and despair? Because I believe you might be missing more of the "basic needs" than just Food and Water. See Maslow's hierarchy of needs[1]. While it is also theory which has arguments against it, it utilizes a more comprehensive definition of "needs."

Surely there are many people in the western world who lack psychological stability or lack companionship.

> All of the needs of your friends and family are met.

You will need to define "needs" because IMHO, that is not true. I have relatives who are veterans of war, friends who have had psychotic breaks, friends who have everything they need but something just doesn't "click" with them.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by ctchocula on Friday May 27, 2016 @11:49AM (#11786783)
According to this post, the hedonic treadmill theory has been disproven. [0]

"The author is flat out wrong. The Hedonic Treadmill has been disproven. Moreover, the author seems to be conflating the concept of the treadmill, with adaptation. The former denotes the subject returns to the original state. The latter recognizes that while we become accustomed to new things, we still improve in happiness.

The author is also misquoting, or misunderstanding, Kahneman. Kahneman isn't talking at all about the treadmill. He's talking about what he called the "Focusing Illusion"-- a fancy way of saying "the grass is always greener on the other side..."

Relevant links:

"Beyond the Hedonic Treadmill: Revising the Adaptation Theory of Well-Being"

http://www.factorhappiness.at/downloads/quellen/S9_Diener.pd...

Kahneman tried to explain the hedonic treadmill via with his own aspiration treadmill. He claims that he not only failed, but the data were opposite to his hypothesis.

https://www.edge.org/response-detail/10056

Kahneman's paper where that OP misquotes Kahneman from:

http://psiexp.ss.uci.edu/research/teaching/Schkade_Kahneman_...

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11535504

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by FilterSweep on Friday May 27, 2016 @12:09PM (#11786930)
Note the key word in my post theory as opposed to "The Hedonic Treadmill" (law, or such thereof).
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by Styx- on Friday May 27, 2016 @11:48AM (#11786775)
You're right, I should've defined "needs". I actually had Maslow's Hierarchy in mind when I made my comment. Also, "all of your needs as a human being are met" was meant in the context of a technological utopia, not now.

As for the hedonic treadmill, I'm sure this is something that philosophers have considered for ages, but I can only give my personal thoughts on it which are this:

I believe that "happiness" is attainable. Perhaps not pure bliss like popular culture likes to portray it as, but when I think of "happiness" I usually think of "contentedness." In this frame, I think it becomes more obviously attainable.

And if it is attainable in the far-from-perfect world we live in now, then surely it will be attainable in some-distant-future-full-of-convenience. I also think that this concept of hedonism is self-perpetuating. If you believe in nihilism, it becomes your reality. If you reject nihilism, it doesn't.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by groovy2shoes on Sunday May 29, 2016 @04:38PM (#11798101)
I can't speak for everyone, but the primary reason I remain unhappy despite having my basic needs cared for is Marxist alienation [1]. Put simply, as long as I remain a wage-slave for the bourgeoisie, I will not have the capacity for true happiness. But not to worry -- I have plans. Patience is key. Soon enough, I will liberate myself from wage labor. Part of what's so great about being a programmer is that the means of software production are relatively inexpensive, and indeed I already possess them. Wish me luck! :)

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by hodwik on Friday May 27, 2016 @10:23AM (#11786220)
>"we are stuck at this set level of happiness."

Relevent HAPPYish scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AWcB_xuBSM

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by wdmeldon on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:27AM (#11785837)
> All of your needs as a human being are met. All of the needs of your friends and family are met. Can you not imagine how much easier it would be to advance toward a "social utopia"?

This is the case for basically everyone I know, and I'd imagine this being the case for a lot of the people here. But we're not advancing to a social utopia.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by XorNot on Friday May 27, 2016 @11:13AM (#11786529)
There's a loooooong way you can fall in our society.

Until that floor is a lot closer to what we call "middle class" you're not going to realize many social benefits.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by st3v3r on Friday May 27, 2016 @12:13PM (#11786963)
Is it? Most of us are one major medical disaster away from being bankrupt. And losing your job generally would throw all that out the window.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by tim333 on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:28AM (#11785845)
Slightly off topic but I can't help but be reminded of the quote from The Third Man:

"in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."

I'm mildly optimistic that we can at least encourage the better bits of society found in the real world today.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by Grishnakh on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:46AM (#11785969)
>"in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."

Surely Italy at the time had a far larger population base than Switzerland.

Also, Switzerland did produce something: a much better society, which served as an example to others. Unfortunately, just as we see today with the difference between developed and undeveloped nations, people are generally too stupid, in groups, to actually learn from others' examples.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by cylinder on Friday May 27, 2016 @03:18PM (#11788241)
And if you were to be dropped with no possessions save for a passport of the nation you are dropped in, where do you go today: Italy or Switzerland?
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by Styx- on Friday May 27, 2016 @11:53AM (#11786810)
EDIT: "All of your needs as a human being are met (according to Maslow's hierarchy.)"
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by tomp on Friday May 27, 2016 @07:31AM (#11785270)
There's nothing wrong with competition. Some people enjoy it, and it undoubtedly improves the world. My idea of utopia certainly includes competition in many areas (arts, sports, science, space exploration, computer games).

It should, however, be possible to opt out of competition (in any particular area) and still live a good life. I think it's perfectly possible to achieve that in a post-scarcity society. Furthermore, a political & moral advancement could ensure that all "common" wealth (infrastructure, land, property, energy) is more-or-less equally distributed (i.e. "you don't deserve to own that penthouse just because you were born in the right family"), perhaps using taxation by "renting" from the society (e.g. more valuable property owners would be paying more taxes/rents to the rest of us, so they will only be able to keep it if they produce outstanding amount of wealth themselves). Then, the only competition would be based on things like intellect and creativity.

The story Manna [0] includes something similar, where energy is distributed equally among all citizens, who can then "use" it (e.g. to create food, clothes, ...) or "donate" it (e.g. to interesting science projects).

[0] http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by FilterSweep on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:29AM (#11785852)
I agree with you on many of the values of competition in our current society today, but I believe you totally missed his point.

When there is competition, there are winners, there are losers, and there are significantly more losers than winners. There is a _reward_ for winning, whether that be tangible (a trophy, or monetary sum), intangibile (pride of winning), or reproductive (potential mates prefer winners). And therein lies the rub - the losers can surely "live a good life"....depending on your definition....but they surely are not in a Utopian setting, as there are intangibile "rewards" to losing as well - lack of partners, shame, insecurity, among many others.

It doesn't matter the arena of competition, the implications of competition are the same - but to different extremes.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by tomp on Friday May 27, 2016 @10:23AM (#11786218)
But there are thousands of competitions going on every day everywhere around us, and you and me are both loosing the vast majority of them. For example, I'm not even competing in any of these: online gaming, hipsterdom, skater subculture, emo subculture, Twilight fans, comic book fans, jazz musicians, prayer, pilgrimage, marathon running, gossip, makeup, having a good hairstyle, vaping, historical reenactment, having sex with as many people as possible, being a virgin, charity, volunteering. I'm sure this list is only limited by the amount of time one is willing to spend on it.

Basically, as long as we have different values, there will be different "competitions" going on. The only reason we even consider some people "successful" is precisely because winning in certain areas bring something most of us value (money). But in an abundance-utopia, money would have no value, so the only important outcome of competition would be status among the people that value whatever you competed in. Which seems quite good to me - I'm sure there will be explicit "non-competition" communities as well for those who really don't want it (meditative monks and such?!).

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by FilterSweep on Friday May 27, 2016 @10:56AM (#11786423)
Non-participating is outside of the scope of competition.

Do note there is also a "Meta" competition which each of those subjects you mentioned are all vying for market share amongst each other. For example - Twilight fan subculture is dwindling, online gaming subculture is growing. Given a finite, albeit considerably large, number of resources, each subject, at the "Meta" level, competes with each other for the [wo]manhours of eyes spent and invested on it.

To get to the bigger point: Within each of those "arenas" you posited, there are few winners and many losers. Money actually is a minor concern even in our society today. Money is a means to an end.

A "fictional" fiat currency does not hold inherent value but the purchasing power that comes with it!

And actually, amongst professional poker and golf players, the top players have shown time and time again to have already removed themselves from the prize money and are in it for the victory, despite the "Purse" being what every casual observer sees. Wearing the Green Jacket of the Masters means significantly more to many of the seasoned players than the money.

In your "abundance-utopia-with-competition" the status is everything, and to be quite honest, it has already been everything. Save for the barest of bones, rags-to-riches stories of people going from dead broke to being successful, many people at the top of their fields would have been fine, monetarily speaking, if they didn't have this success.

But the key phrase here is "monetarily speaking." -

- More importantly to many people than the money, the mating opportunities do not come to losers. We are closer to chimps than bonobos. That inherently is not a utopia. You're missing this.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by ArkyBeagle on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:17AM (#11785779)
I don't think we can tell competition from parodies of competition any more.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by collyw on Friday May 27, 2016 @06:58AM (#11785134)
"As long as we are programmed to compete with each other"

Are we?

Most of our greatest achievements seem to have come about through collaboration rather than competition.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by Kurtz79 on Friday May 27, 2016 @07:43AM (#11785315)
The moon landing was a product of the "space race" between US and URSS.

The Internet has its roots on a network developed by the US department of defense.

The first nuclear reactors were a byproduct of the development of the atom bomb.

The first computers were developed during WWII to perform cryptanalysis and solve military problems.

I'm sure opposite examples can be found (mapping the human genome ?) but I doubt they would make a vast majority.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by nickthemagicman on Friday May 27, 2016 @08:05AM (#11785425)
The problem is not so much one of competition. The problem is where that competition is directed.

Einstein, Salk, Tesla, Marconi, etc.

These people were't competing with other humans. They were competing with and seeking some dominance over NATURE.

Competing with other humans is a very tribalistic primitive behavior. Like gangs of chimps in a forest.

We need some outer force to compete against instead of turning on each other.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by GrumpyYoungMan on Friday May 27, 2016 @10:18AM (#11786189)
That's a rather romantic view of scientific progress but the actual history is not as nice. I think you're forgetting about the rivalry Edison had with Tesla, at the very least. In academia, fighting over who published/made a discovery first (and therefore gets the credit) are depressingly common. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientific_priority_di..., which includes Einstein, Marconi, and Tesla). Today, most STEM researchers won't talk about their research results before publication for fear of getting scooped.

Competition is very much alive and well (not to mention quite vicious) even in the pursuit of knowledge.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by uremog on Friday May 27, 2016 @11:13AM (#11786527)
I have a researcher friend whose paper was rejected from publication because another paper had similar research. The thing is, that other paper cited a draft of his own paper (the one that was denied). Fights over "who came first" are definitely still alive and may not even involve the primary stakeholders.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by yolesaber on Friday May 27, 2016 @07:52AM (#11785363)
Your point is interesting because all of those examples were indeed conceived of due to competition and conflict, yet most had their potential realized because of the need to cooperate between people. Computers were the blinking bean counters of corporations and governments before people started getting together and sharing their ideas and schematics about them (Even before the homebrew club - Stanford AI lab, Engelbart's work etc). The Internet was developed as a means for the military to communicate, sure, but it didn't become anything truly useful or empowering to humanity until we adopted commonly-held standards and protocols which were developed by a peaceful international research lab.

Seems like you may need a bit of healthy competition to make the breakthrough, but afterwards cooperation is crucial otherwise the gains of the breakthrough are never realized.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by drabiega on Friday May 27, 2016 @08:08AM (#11785442)
> Seems like you may need a bit of healthy competition to make the breakthrough, but afterwards cooperation is crucial otherwise the gains of the breakthrough are never realized.

I think it's just a product of the societies we've had. In all those cases it was the cooperative aspect that made the breakthrough. The competition was only needed to allocate the resources for it, though, given the nature of our society.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by TeMPOraL on Friday May 27, 2016 @08:22AM (#11785498)
I think you nailed it. What competition did in this case is allowed enough resources to be allocated for those projects - there are a lot of worthy endeavours today that are mostly competition-free and end up resource-starved because of that. Competition adds urgency to an issue, which reprioritizes things.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by aleh on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:23AM (#11785813)
Aren't these worthy endeavours resource-starved because most of resources are being spent on less worthy endeavours which involve competition?
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by TeMPOraL on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:26AM (#11785830)
Yup.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by Kurtz79 on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:52AM (#11786007)
Of course, said achievements too big to be achieved fully by a single person or group.

Far from me from not giving collaboration its due, but it is undeniable that the prime mover of many a human achievement was due to competition.

The real challenge for constant progress, I think, is to make this competition "healthy", as in "not depending on a world war or the threat of nuclear annihilation"...

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by alanwatts on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:38AM (#11785910)
Don't miss the forest for the trees.

The desire to survive against a perceived threat may have been the impetus for all of these but immediately beyond that, all of these could not have been possible without the collaboration between scientists.

If we could but discover a new motivation for technological innovation besides murder, such innovations could occur at a fraction of the time and cost and not run the risk of being used to suicide the entire species (i.e. nuclear weapons).

Additionally, when taking into consideration the existential threat of climate change, the survival of the species may now depend on a status quo of mutual aid rather than mutual sabotage.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by Grishnakh on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:49AM (#11785987)
Humans are able to make temporary alliances to defeat a mutual threat. After the threat is over, they go back to infighting.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by pjmorris on Friday May 27, 2016 @07:52AM (#11785365)
And the atomic bomb itself was perhaps the ultimate competition, as many felt that a German atomic bomb would be an existential threat to the US [1].

I suspect much of our current technological age has its roots in the aftermath of the Manhattan project. Bombs led to use, led to other countries developing bombs, drove surveillance, drove space travel, drove the miniaturization of electronics in cycles that eventually gave us Hacker News on a smartphone [2].

[1] Richard Rhodes, 'The Making of the Atomic Bomb' [2] Steve Blank, 'The Secret History of Silicon Valley', https://steveblank.com/secret-history/

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by arethuza on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:05AM (#11785704)
"I suspect much of our current technological age has its roots in the aftermath of the Manhattan project."

More like the aftermath of WW2 - radar, jet engines, guided missiles, ballistic missiles, computers, nuclear power...

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by pjmorris on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:40AM (#11785922)
Granted all of those things... but the nuclear energy aspect raised the stakes to city and national survival, boosting the budget of anything used to deliver (* missiles, jet ) or monitor ( electronics) nuclear energy.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by arethuza on Friday May 27, 2016 @10:35AM (#11786292)
I guess we could agree that WW2 and the Cold War kept up the rate of war-based innovation started in WW1 (tanks, WMD...)
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by TheOtherHobbes on Friday May 27, 2016 @11:06AM (#11786486)
You're missing something critical - in a post-scarcity cooperative society resources are distributed more evenly, which makes it much easier to create breakthroughs.

In a militarised competitive culture there's a huge "tax" on innovation, because maintaining a competitive posture is so incredibly draining and expensive that it starves all but a handful of possible projects of oxygen.

So instead of a tiny collection of stand-out military-sponsored projects you'd get a broad spectrum collection of equivalently powerful breakthroughs in many more areas.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by collyw on Friday May 27, 2016 @07:53AM (#11785369)
They were also the results of lots of collaboration.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by tnecniv on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:01AM (#11785691)
Orson Welles has a famous line about this in the Third Man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyuJQ_UO7OE
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by NoGravitas on Friday May 27, 2016 @07:54AM (#11785374)
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by Amygaz on Friday May 27, 2016 @08:04AM (#11785418)
I think we are, maybe in a different way than mvdwood is suggesting. The way I see it is that, the same way one doesn't become asperger or autist, you don't become narcissist, your brain is wired that way, early on during its development, so it's in your DNA and what affects it.

Medical research on narcissism is still very young, but so far we have indication for genetic inheritance and therefore potential genetic markers have been found, we observed defining prefrontal cortex signatures, and reproducible and predictable phenotypes (e.g. atypical responses to an environmental stimulus). Similar trends are also observed in altruism, which is seen as the opposite narcissism.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by adrianN on Friday May 27, 2016 @07:05AM (#11785167)
Are you sure, I can't think of anything where competition was not involved. Can you give some examples?

edit: Big science projects like the LHC maybe?

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by catmanjan on Friday May 27, 2016 @07:41AM (#11785306)
I don't think there is any competition when it comes to altruism after a tragedy, like volunteers after a terror attack or a natural disaster.

Actually, I'd argue that big science projects are international competitions for getting to the right answer first.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by tim333 on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:41AM (#11785935)
Some people are altruistic after tragedies but there are also usually politicians trying to spin them to their advantage.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by marak830 on Friday May 27, 2016 @06:45AM (#11785091)
Along those lines of thought I remembered an article about a troop of baboons with no alpha males left.

http://bobsutton.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/11/the-baboon-tr...

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by emodendroket on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:40AM (#11785925)
If that urge is really so deep, then why do so many people voluntarily not have children, or have fewer children than they could? If your main goal is to dominate the gene pool it seems clear that the best strategy is to sire as many children as possible.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by FilterSweep on Friday May 27, 2016 @12:06PM (#11786909)
Cost, artificially-induced social stigma, time investment, and the foolish belief that hard work would procure partner with better genetic material, mainly.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by emodendroket on Friday May 27, 2016 @01:07PM (#11787349)
Many of those don't explain all the married couples electing not to have children. If cost and time investment are the concern, we might surmise that the urge to rule the genetic pool is not really so innate and irrepressible after all.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by FilterSweep on Friday May 27, 2016 @02:09PM (#11787779)
What about the couples marrying for reasons other than having children? Or the couples incapable of having children?
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by emodendroket on Friday May 27, 2016 @03:20PM (#11788257)
What about them? If the urge to affect the gene pool is so irrepressible, the reason you married doesn't matter; you should still, instinctively, yearn for children.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by germinalphrase on Friday May 27, 2016 @01:40PM (#11787596)
In his utopian novel "Island" - Aldous Huxley proposed rock climbing as a suitable alternative to the desire for domination over others.

Instead of sating this desire by building power over (or commuting violence against) others, you exercise domination over yourself.

As a sometimes climber, it's a nice - if incredible - thought.

Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by cousin_it on Friday May 27, 2016 @07:58AM (#11785390)
I disagree. In the long run most of our problems won't be caused by genes, but rather by intelligent entities trying to achieve their goals. Intelligent entities are faster than genes and can edit genes.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by tim333 on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:43AM (#11785950)
Though we get to program the intelligent entities, to begin with at any rate.
Re:The new utopias: Should we retain the right to feel unhap... by Grishnakh on Friday May 27, 2016 @09:42AM (#11785943)
I think you're absolutely correct. Humans are selfish assholes, basically.

It's too bad our branch of the great apes family is the one that evolved high intelligence, instead of the branch that has the Bonobos. If they were the ones who grew huge brains and high intelligence, they'd probably already have Utopia by now.