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Re:New Sublime Text update by keithnz on Friday May 13, 2016 @12:35AM (#11688652)
loved my time with sublime, then atom crossed a line where, while not as good as sublime in some area, it got good in other areas... then... vscode came along and showed how snappy an electron app could be, but didn't have a lot of stuff.... then bam, it opened up, and still not as many toys as Atom, and not quite as slick as sublime, it hits a bit of sweet spot somewhere in between.
Re:New Sublime Text update by BuildTheRobots on Friday May 13, 2016 @07:25AM (#11689758)
My biggest objection to Atom over Sublime is the memory overhead when opening even moderately large files.

I'm in ops rather than dev, so often deal with 10mb+ log files - but don't have a lot of the IDE type requirements of my colleagues. Sublime open them in seconds and is nice and quick to search through and look at. Trying to open a 10mb file in atom causes it to chew up 1.2gb of ram and it's laggy when scrolling nevermind when trying to search etc.

Sublime on the other hand not only starts up quicker and is more responsive, but it's only costing me 100mb of ram for my 10mb file as well as 20 others I've not bothered closing.

If I try and load a 100mb file in sublime it doesn't balk. Takes about 8 seconds to load, but once loaded it's amazingly responsive (to the point where I thought I still had my 10mb not 100mb file loaded). Atom attempts to open the file but takes forever and then dies after exhausting the 8gb ram on my laptop.

tldr: sublime feels stable, lean and fast vs memory munching and perceivably slow.

Edit: oh, and atom's installer is 104mb, the new build of sublime3 is 8mb.

edit2: Even after a clean boot atom just crashes trying to open a large file well before it fills up my memory, so no idea.

Re:New Sublime Text update by Keats on Friday May 13, 2016 @11:34AM (#11690978)
My only interaction with Atom so far was trying to paste a 8k chars line in a dojo on someone's recent mac pro. It crashed every single time and crashed again on opening as it was trying to load the file with the long line on startup. In the end I had to use vim to open it, was instant and I could actually remove that line (not a vim user).
Re:New Sublime Text update by markgavalda on Friday May 13, 2016 @08:22AM (#11689951)
Exact reason why I too stick to ST3.
Re:New Sublime Text update by joshmanders on Friday May 13, 2016 @09:12AM (#11690178)
This was a concern of mine before switching from Sublime to Atom on the Atom 1.0 release, but I don't open moderately large files often so I really don't worry about it anymore.

Atom has come a long way and I love using it.

Re:New Sublime Text update by wonks on Friday May 13, 2016 @02:49PM (#11692409)
There have been times where files have been too big even for Sublime Text to load on my Macbook without slowing it down. In those cases I've used Vim with the LargeFile plugin.
Re:New Sublime Text update by BuildTheRobots on Friday May 13, 2016 @03:08PM (#11692537)
Is this the right Vim plugin? [1] - if so wasn't aware; will add it to the toolkit with thanks :)

http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=1506

Re:New Sublime Text update by tripzilch on Sunday May 15, 2016 @10:36PM (#11703890)
> Trying to open a 10mb file in atom causes it to chew up 1.2gb of ram

Truly?! That's a factor of 100x, that's ridiculous.

TBH, I'd kind of expect an editor to use a factor maybe 2x of the loaded file (for quick access indices, searching, etc). More if you count undo-buffers, of course.

Re:New Sublime Text update by BuildTheRobots on Monday May 16, 2016 @07:01AM (#11705511)
I could well be reading the stats wrong, but yes; really - this is tested on Windows 7 64bit (latest updates). Opening Atom without any plugins, themes or files loaded seems to require approx 150mb just to be alive.
Re:New Sublime Text update by z3t4 on Friday May 13, 2016 @10:46AM (#11690685)
Do you edit the large files, or only look at them?
Re:New Sublime Text update by BuildTheRobots on Friday May 13, 2016 @12:16PM (#11691244)
Depends what I'm doing. Sometimes I need to edit as well as just view them. I have seen the Atom text-tail plugin that keeps getting mentioned but when I went to install it the homepage says Atom now copes with large files so it's been depreciated... I have to be honest, at this point I lost interest and went back to sublime.

Call me old fashioned, but the #1 feature I want from my text editor is the ability to edit plain text files... everything else is gravy (though syntax highlighting and regex's are two "features" I really like).

Amusingly (and only tangentially related), I just realised that notepad.exe on windows 7, which I always remember balking at files in the single MB range copes with my 100mb test file amicably and only chews 225mb of ram (21mb for my 10mb test file).

Re:New Sublime Text update by tejinderss on Friday May 13, 2016 @02:58AM (#11689034)
I have tried both (vsc and atom) and they both have significant typing lag. I want my text editor to be snappy , don't care about fancy features. Unless they plan to port this to c++ or something I am happy with sublime text.
Re:New Sublime Text update by welly on Friday May 13, 2016 @03:25AM (#11689112)
That's what I've found. I've been using Atom for a couple of weeks now and have decided to give up on it. I'm using it on a fairly substantial Macbook Pro and the start up lag drives me nuts. Back to ST3 I guess...
Re:New Sublime Text update by tokenizerrr on Friday May 13, 2016 @05:13AM (#11689397)
Absolutely zero typing lag on Atom here. Wonder what is causing all these different experiences.
Re:New Sublime Text update by nailer on Friday May 13, 2016 @05:35AM (#11689436)
Human seem to have very different tolerances for latency. I've had someone call me over to their desk to show that Eclipse could be fast, and what they described as 'responsive' I find 'hair tearingly laggy'. He's not wrong, and I'm not right, we just have different expectations.
Re:New Sublime Text update by shawnz on Friday May 13, 2016 @12:07PM (#11691187)
When it comes to typing lag specifically, anything more than "imperceptible" is too much for me, and I think most people would agree. Having said that, I have never observed any kind of typing lag from Atom.
Re:New Sublime Text update by jjawssd on Friday May 13, 2016 @05:30AM (#11689430)
Javascript
Re:New Sublime Text update by Wintamute on Friday May 13, 2016 @07:39AM (#11689795)
So JavaScript is the reason different Atom users have different levels of lag? You realise they're all using JavaScript right? It isn't optional on Atom.
Re:New Sublime Text update by tejinderss on Friday May 13, 2016 @06:15AM (#11689545)
More like DOM
Re:New Sublime Text update by arviewer on Friday May 13, 2016 @09:22AM (#11690226)
Just tried Atom on my rather old Ubuntu desktop - it totally locked up, several times. Even Eclipse is quick compared to this.
Re:New Sublime Text update by usaphp on Friday May 13, 2016 @01:22AM (#11688785)
can you tell me what exactly in Atom or vscode is worth switching from ST?
Re:New Sublime Text update by k3n on Friday May 13, 2016 @01:39AM (#11688831)
Disclaimer: I haven't used any of the 3 extensively, but I do play around in them from time-to-time. The main difference to me is that ST comes as a bare-metal editor with the potential to do just about anything, while Atom and VSC come with some built-in features that just make life easier and the ability to extend it further.

A concrete example would be VSC's git support; out-of-the-box, it's a full-featured git client, and even if you prefer the git cli for most operations like I do, VSC automatically reads the .git directory and then creates a tab that shows your current changelist (modified, staged) with a visual diff of the files. Also allows you to easily do the common stuff like checkout a branch, commit, push, etc.

If you're a big fan of ST, you probably won't like the alternatives unless you have some frustrations with ST, because ST is probably more powerful overall, but compared to Atom & VSC, the learning curve is also quite a bit higher.

Re:New Sublime Text update by slapresta on Friday May 13, 2016 @04:05AM (#11689231)
The git support is a big deal. I loathe SourceTree and the like, but VSC is basically a better `git add -p` for me.
Re:New Sublime Text update by k__ on Friday May 13, 2016 @04:28AM (#11689298)
It's funny that the Git support of VSCode is better than that of Atom, since Atom is from GitHub, haha.
Re:New Sublime Text update by geoffpado on Friday May 13, 2016 @01:28AM (#11688797)
The fact that a minor update got released isn't a rare enough occurrence to warrant a highly-voted post on HN.

Snark aside, VSC has grown up quite a lot, very quickly. If you like Sublime, good for you, stick with it. But it looks like VSC is going to pick up support for more new things, faster. Personal favorite: support exists to plug in third-party debuggers and get debug tools/build errors inside VSC.

Re:New Sublime Text update by stevetrewick on Friday May 13, 2016 @07:14AM (#11689714)
>The fact that a minor update got released isn't a rare enough occurrence to warrant a highly-voted post on HN.

Reality appears to disagree with you on this point.

Re:New Sublime Text update by coldtea on Friday May 13, 2016 @02:24AM (#11688925)
>The fact that a minor update got released isn't a rare enough occurrence to warrant a highly-voted post on HN.

So, it's not as mature enough and still adds things regularly, including still struggling with speed issues?

How often does Vim have updates released? Who even cares for most of them?

Re:New Sublime Text update by Artemis2 on Friday May 13, 2016 @03:58AM (#11689209)
Well, Sublime Text 3 is still a beta.

https://github.com/vim/vim/releases

Re:New Sublime Text update by coldtea on Friday May 13, 2016 @01:22PM (#11691739)
That doesn't mean much, it's just a label. ST3 has been stable (and my main editor) for 2+ years now.

React was 0.15 until recently, and Node was adopted by major companies like Microsoft at 0.xx versions.

Re:New Sublime Text update by Artemis2 on Friday May 13, 2016 @01:48PM (#11691947)
The way people number their versions does not mean anything (React is actually in v15 now). 0.xx has no meaning, except if the developer of the software explicitly indicates it's unfinished. Version numbers are entirely subjective by default.

I agree with you on the stability of Sublime Text, but the label beta has, on the opposite of version numbers, a consistent meaning: it's not finished.

Re:New Sublime Text update by plexicle on Friday May 13, 2016 @02:21AM (#11688922)
This may or may not matter to you, but VSCode and Atom are open-source.

That means a lot to me, but I understand that some people won't really care.

Re:New Sublime Text update by usaphp on Friday May 13, 2016 @02:55AM (#11689031)
Can you tell me how many times have you used their advantage of being open-source? Everybody keeps talking about ST not being open sourced, but how many people have actually went and dig into the Atom code and changed something in a core of it? I just want to write code with a fast editor, I don't really care if its open source or not if it does what I want it to do
Re:New Sublime Text update by Strom on Friday May 13, 2016 @03:24AM (#11689111)
I'm still using ST, but there have definitely been times when I wished it would be possible to modify some functionality. [1] I've sent them feature requests, but as they barely manage to implement their own ideas, mine have been ignored. If it were open source, I could've implemented it myself, which I certainly do for other tools that I use and find lacking.

[1] For example the find-replace dialog closes itself when I press "Replace All", as opposed to other editors I've used where it doesn't. It's annoying to have to reopen the dialog after every different search.

Re:New Sublime Text update by mevile on Friday May 13, 2016 @03:02AM (#11689052)
The benefit of open source is really better plugins. It's much easier to create plugins for an editor if you can see the editor's source code. This is true for IntelliJ IDEA and Atom in particular. I have been able to create pretty great UIs and other features in IntelliJ plugins from looking at and introspecting the IntelliJ code to see how it was done there.

The other benefit is that if the company dies you know you wont have wasted all that effort with the editor because open source editors don't live and die at the behest of the company that started them.

Re:New Sublime Text update by sspiff on Friday May 13, 2016 @03:06AM (#11689064)
Even if you don't fix or extend anything yourself, a sufficiently popular open source project is immortal in a very real sense.

Think of it as insurance for one of you most important tools.

Re:New Sublime Text update by rtpg on Friday May 13, 2016 @03:28AM (#11689120)
I've stepped through some atom code to figure out how to properly configure syntax highlighting (ended up being me misunderstanding how certain regexes work...)

I haven't changed anything in core, but having the ability to walk through all the code is super useful in debugging.

Re:New Sublime Text update by ArmandGrillet on Friday May 13, 2016 @05:35AM (#11689439)
> how many people have actually went and dig into the Atom code and changed something in a core of it?

More than 1144: http://blog.atom.io/2016/05/06/two-years-open-source.html

Re:New Sublime Text update by Grae on Friday May 13, 2016 @08:46AM (#11690054)
>I don't really care if its open source or not if it does what I want it to do

You care about the utility of your editor, and that's fine. Several other comments here try to highlight ways in which open source projects are more pragmatic, like the ability to make modifications yourself or take advantage of community contributions.

All of that is just arguing about utility, though. For many people open source is a moral issue. RMS is a notable example here. And I prefer open source tools for this reason.

If you believe open source software is morally superior to closed source software then the utility considerations are of secondary, or perhaps even zero, importance.

Re:New Sublime Text update by Lennu on Friday May 13, 2016 @04:15AM (#11689255)
I think it is not about doing the actual digging and changing code of open source project. It is more the idea that it is possible and can be done if needed.
Re:New Sublime Text update by swasheck on Friday May 13, 2016 @11:24AM (#11690910)
Why does the advantage necessarily have to be personal? Why can't it be communal? Though I don't fancy myself as capable to make significant contributions to FOSS projects, I do use and promote them (though, if I'm honest, HN exposes more to me than I do here) so that others can have exposure to them, use them, provide feedback/contribution to the project.
Re:New Sublime Text update by polshaw on Friday May 13, 2016 @05:15AM (#11689400)
ARM builds are something that I want from ST; if it were OSS that would not be impossible
Re:New Sublime Text update by throwaway84284 on Friday May 13, 2016 @03:06AM (#11689065)
He cares deeply about open-source because it usually comes attached to free-as-in-beer-ness.
Re:New Sublime Text update by be5invis on Friday May 13, 2016 @06:59AM (#11689659)
They are free and open-source. The latest VSCode has my code to fix CJK word wrapping (and Kinsoku Shori).
Re:New Sublime Text update by romanovcode on Friday May 13, 2016 @03:54AM (#11689196)
VSC has built-in debuggers for node, go, python and c# that work very well.
Re:New Sublime Text update by k__ on Friday May 13, 2016 @04:30AM (#11689304)
Also the linter/autocomplete stuff seems much better integrated and snappier.
Re:New Sublime Text update by drhayes9 on Friday May 13, 2016 @11:27AM (#11690936)
Atom and VS Code listen to your .gitignore when showing a folder of files. Quick searches ignore those files as well. In Atom those folders/files are still openable (the explorer pane thingy shows them as grayed out).

To get the same functionality in Sublime, AFAIK, you have to create a couple of project files first and add folders into it. Then, if you later make a new folder via the terminal you have to edit your project file to include it.

That's been my biggest headache around Sublime vs. Atom. It's the smallest thing but it's like sand in my shoe.

Re:New Sublime Text update by geerlingguy on Friday May 13, 2016 @12:25PM (#11691299)
There are often times when I want certain files ignored in gitignore, but I still need to work with them and/or search them in the editor.

For me, it's nice to have a separate way to tell Sublime what to hide.

Re:New Sublime Text update by hrktb on Friday May 13, 2016 @03:01AM (#11689044)
For me the OSX integration was better for Atom. Little things like the 'Duplicate' option in the project tree drawer. Also better PHP plugins.
Re:New Sublime Text update by ball_of_lint on Friday May 13, 2016 @03:04AM (#11689058)
Atom is a small bit slower than sublime, but it has just as many or possibly more plugins, has a nicer settings and plugin interface, and is open source and free.
Re:New Sublime Text update by profmonocle on Friday May 13, 2016 @04:16AM (#11689260)
I switched to Atom a few months ago, and I agree with all your points, but I think you're being a bit generous calling Atom "a small bit slower". On my machine (2013 MacBook Air) Sublime opens instantaneously, while Atom takes 2-3 seconds. Opening files is also noticeably slower, though not by as much. Memory usage is also far higher, in the hundreds of MBs vs tens.
Re:New Sublime Text update by eivarv on Friday May 13, 2016 @06:56AM (#11689649)
This has been my experience as well, in addition to an increase in energy use.
Re:New Sublime Text update by adrianhoward on Friday May 13, 2016 @09:07AM (#11690158)
Me too. I poke at Atom every few months — but speed + battery time are why I'm currently sticking with ST.
Re:New Sublime Text update by gadders on Friday May 13, 2016 @04:39AM (#11689321)
Brackets is pretty good, no?
Re:New Sublime Text update by baby on Friday May 13, 2016 @11:20AM (#11690873)
A huge potential, but after trying it a bit I was disapointed by the clunkyness. I'd say it's good for beginners trying to learn html+css.
Re:New Sublime Text update by copperx on Friday May 13, 2016 @10:52AM (#11690718)
Ah, I forgot about Brackets. Why isn't it as popular as Atom?