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Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by whyenot on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @01:25PM (#11622591)
Five hundred years ago, Spaniards spread the seeds of european annual grasses as they traveled between missions in California. Within a century or two, a large part of the California landscape had changed. Annual grasses crowded out native perennial grasses, and we got our "golden hills." Nobody knows exactly what California looked like before the Spanish arrived or how many species may have gone extinct, but you can still see echoes of what happened. For example Mount Hamilton Jewelflower, now reduced to a few relict populations on serpentine soil where the annual grasses don't grow so high...

SOD is a disturbance of similar magnitude. It won't kill all the oaks. For example it only kills black oaks (coastal live oak, interior live oak, California black oak, ...) but not white oaks (blue oak, valley oak, ...). What it likely will do is over time dramatically change the makeup of the oak woodlands, especially along the coast and in the Sierra Nevada foothills.

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by stevecalifornia on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @01:50PM (#11622773)
Not plant related, but equally fascinating: There used to be a lake bigger than Lake Tahoe in California between Fresno and Bakersfield. It It was the largest fresh water lake west of the Great Lakes (by surface area). It was drained for agriculture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulare_Lake

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by gricardo99 on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @04:01PM (#11623739)
I discovered this historical trivia myself by chance not long ago. While stopping in Kettleman City off of I-5, there's a retail complex called Bravo Farms. Inside, near the restrooms there's a map on the wall showing a massive "Tulare Lake". I could hardly believe such a large lake existed in this area not too long ago and it's mostly forgotten.

Google image search, and I found someone else posted a pic of the map: http://ink361.com/app/users/ig-2115609400/eccentricculinary/...

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by paavokoya on Wednesday May 04, 2016 @01:34AM (#11626435)
Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by bradleyjg on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @03:13PM (#11623388)
There's a similar story in Israel. There used to be two lakes on the Jordan River (which isn't much a river anymore but that's a different story). The famous Sea of Galilee (Kinneret) and one further to the north called Lake Hula (Merom) that existed until it was drained in the 1950s.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by hasslein on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @05:47PM (#11624497)
I would highly recommend "Cadillac Desert: The American West and its Disappearing Water;" it goes into fair detail about Lake Tulare. Fascinating read.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by j_s on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @09:46PM (#11625598)
Thanks for the recommendation! Linking here to make sure all the "HN Reads"-ish tools pick it up:

http://amzn.com/dp/B001RTKIUA

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by kafkaesq on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @07:34PM (#11625072)
There used to be a fairly sizable indigenous community (referred to by English-speaking settlers as the Yokuts) in the vicinity of that lake. Some 70,000 strong at their pre-contact height (one of the highest regional populations in North America):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yokuts_people

As a people they were apparently "drained" nearly out of existence, also, through the combined efforts of Mexican and European settlers, around the time that lake was drained (down to an estimated population of 600 by 1910).

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by kingmanaz on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @02:09PM (#11622920)
For a good read on what happened to Lake Tulare, read "The King of California". The world's largest cotton plantation now sits in the lakebed and holds primary water rights. Pink sheet stock. Ticker BWEL.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by ParadigmBlender on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @03:48PM (#11623638)
I went to the library and browsed the book on your recommendation. It is indeed great. It includes a few photos and maps as well. I will have to find the time to read it.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by hinkley on Wednesday May 04, 2016 @12:01AM (#11626084)
Did you know there's a group trying to create rice that doesn't absorb arsenic?

It turns out one of the only things that can grow on depleted cotton land is rice, but the pesticides used against weevils contain arsenic, and for some weird reason people don't like to eat rice full of arsenic!

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by daodedickinson on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @02:25PM (#11623031)
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by j_s on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @09:56PM (#11625632)
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by ashitlerferad on Wednesday May 04, 2016 @03:11AM (#11626725)
Sell sell sell
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by losteric on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @04:14PM (#11623825)
I wonder how all these lost lakes impacted the regional climate
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by samstave on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @07:24PM (#11625026)
I've often thought about this.

I've wondered; if we built a huge trench from the ocean into the Sahara desert, what would the environmental impact be??

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by blackbagboys on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @11:52PM (#11626049)
People have been making plans about how to flood parts of the Sahara for about 100 years. Some of the more colorful options involved using buried nuclear warheads as trench-digging tools.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qattara_Depression_Project

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahara_Sea

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by ijk on Wednesday May 04, 2016 @08:21AM (#11627784)
The Amazon rainforest would die. [1]

How much of it actually would die is obviously depends on factors like how big the replacement lake is and how much it affects the phosphorus, but I'm constantly amazed by how seemly separate systems are actually intimately interconnected.

[1] http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/nasa-satellite-reveals-h...

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by jp555 on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @11:21PM (#11625921)
I can imagine it would quickly be filled in by sand. The Sahara is a slow moving ocean of sand particles.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by has2k1 on Wednesday May 04, 2016 @01:08AM (#11626330)
The sand only moves if it is light. When the weather and climate changes, the make up of the sand changes and so does the way it moves. It is a complicated process and it would definitely have some surprises.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by brazzy on Wednesday May 04, 2016 @03:46AM (#11626840)
Actually, most of the Sahara is rocky, not sandy.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by chrisdone on Wednesday May 04, 2016 @08:45AM (#11627902)
All the sandworms would die.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by ParadigmBlender on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @03:45PM (#11623622)
I had no idea about this facinating part of California history. To think I drove by near the spot dozzens of times between SF and LA wihout ever knowing. Thank you!
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by 13of40 on Wednesday May 04, 2016 @02:56AM (#11626677)
Wow - that's actually pretty mindblowing. I lived in Porterville (on the east side of the lake, apparently) when I was a teenager, and my dad was an archaeologist, so he must have known about it but I don't recall him mentioning it. Explains why that whole drive north from there is so flat, though.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by callmeed on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @03:54PM (#11623682)
See also: the eucalyptus tree which was brought to CA in the 1800s and spread rapidly before everyone realized that young trees are useless for timber [0][1]

Here on the Central Coast, there are eucalyptus groves everywhere (some are massive). They are messy, a fire hazard, and useless for firewood.

0. http://www.independent.com/news/2011/jan/15/how-eucalyptus-c...

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptus#North_America

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by hyperbovine on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @04:17PM (#11623849)
Slowly they are being eradicated. People in the East Bay are going apeshit over FEMA's plans to knock down ~10,000 eucalyptus in order to restore native vegetation and prevent a(nother) disastrous fire in the Oakland hills. On the other hand they seem to be very popular in Napa and along the 101 as windbreaks. Maybe we'll never get rid of them.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by hkmurakami on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @05:58PM (#11624583)
A bunch of Eucalyptus trees lining the streets along the hills bordering 280 have been removed over the last 5 years.

I was sad at first from seeing these trees I grew up with go away, but then my friend educated me about the invasive nature of the trees, and now that a few years have passed since the first wave of removals in my neighborhood, I can say that I've become accustomed to the new sights.

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by callmeed on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @04:32PM (#11623994)
Yeah, wind break is their only redeeming quality. One of my favorite golf courses here would be a lot less fun without them.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by dredmorbius on Wednesday May 04, 2016 @12:20AM (#11626162)
"Widowmakers". The last thing you want next to a highway in a strong wind is a eucalyptus tree.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by danieltillett on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @04:47PM (#11624103)
As an Australian I find the CA eucalyptus very nostalgic. They are most certainly a fire hazard, but I am surprised to learn that they are considered useless for firewood. Here in Australia the best firewood is eucalyptus - it is a bastard to split though.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by callmeed on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @06:04PM (#11624616)
Yeah, it can work as firewood for heat if its thoroughly dried (1+ year). You have to split it before it dries.

I guess I should clarify my previous post. Most people in CA don't burn wood for heat. I was specifically referring to burning wood for cooking (aka Santa Maria Style BBQ). For that, oak is superior and eucalyptus is a no-go.

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by danieltillett on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @06:21PM (#11624724)
Yes it does need to be dried to burn well. I have split by hand an awful lot of seasoned eucalyptus and it is hard work and takes real skill. It is even worse here in Australia as due to the native pests the wood contains a lot more knots. You get used to taking a good look at a log and deciding if that is worth splitting or not.

You can cook with it, but you need to let the fire die down and cook on the coals only - that is unless you love the taste of cough drops.

On the topic of building with it even young eucalyptus is OK if you let the timber season while strapped so it doesn’t twist and warp. The only problem is that it become like iron and is impossible to nail. When I was a kid we had a huge supply of seasoned eucalyptus that my brother and I used to build all sorts of things. We had to pre-drill all the nail holes before we could use it. If you did this it was a 100x better structural timber than pine.

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by caf on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @11:23PM (#11625932)
I have long experience as a teenager splitting yellowbox eucalyptus for firewood - it splits considerably better when seasoned.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by danieltillett on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @11:48PM (#11626032)
Yes as long as it is not knotted.

My favourite was logs that had the core eaten out by termites - now they were nice and easy to split :)

Talking of arthropods did you ever have the fun of chainsawing through a bull ant nest while collecting seasoned logs? They are not happy and do they hurt when they bite.

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by estreeper on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @03:08PM (#11623347)
I grew up in northern New Mexico, in an area where piñon and juniper trees grew together, dotting the landscape as far as you could see.

About 15 years ago, after years of drought causing tree weakness, we had a bark beetle epidemic. It affected only the piñon, but losses were close to 100% in many areas. We had probably around 150 piñon trees: after the epidemic, 4 remained. It was heartbreaking to drive around and see huge swaths of brown, dead trees covering the land. The alteration was dramatic.

Only now, the progeny of those dead trees are beginning to come back. It will still probably be another 20 years before things start to look normal to me. The makeup of our forests in California will be altered for a long time, in the best case.

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by zamalek on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @03:12PM (#11623373)
> What it likely will do is over time dramatically change the makeup of the oak woodlands, especially along the coast and in the Sierra Nevada foothills.

Once the disease has run its course (read: all affected oaks dead), couldn't we reintroduce the extinct oaks? We've bought back a species from near-extinction already[1].

[1]: http://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2012/02/24/147367644/si...

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by whyenot on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @03:52PM (#11623661)
The problem is, it doesn't just infect oaks, but several other plant species like California bay laurel. The pathogen lives as an endophyte in the leaves of bay laurel without killing the host or even causing significant damage, yet still spreading the disease. In fact, one method to control the disease is to physically remove all the bay laurel trees from an area you would like to protect. How well this actually works is not clear to me, but I haven't kept up with the literature.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by pixl97 on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @03:21PM (#11623455)
It is spread by spores that are very resistant. There is a possibility those spores could live in the soil for decades.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by panglott on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @03:56PM (#11623699)
Look at the decades of effort that's gone into restoring the American chestnut, one of the most productive and economically important trees of eastern North America. This is not something that is easy to do.
Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by samstave on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @07:19PM (#11625000)
I'm just so amazed at how much fucked up devastation the Spanish are responsible for.

It's impressive.

Re:Scientists say sudden oak death epidemic is no longer sto... by marincounty on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @03:20PM (#11623444)
As to the spread of the disease, in my country they are recommending bikers/hikers to disenfect their shoes if they have been in the woods.

PG@E hires tree companies to trim all branches around their power lines. When the tree company was trimming around my residential trees, I noticed a complete lack of any disinfection protocol.Didn't disenfect tools, boots, gloves, etc. These trucks, and employees looked like they were actively spreading disease. Think about those tree shredders. It seems like if a diseased black oak goes in, it might blow the pathogen everywhere? (I did ask an employee if he knew the difference between White, and Black Oak. Just looked at me puzzled. Went to another employee, and asked the same question--he spoke a little bit of English, and said no. It wasen't their fault. They just weren't trained.)

I complained. When they came back to my street, they acted like they were going into surgery. Spray for tools. Spray for boots. Spray everywhere. It was quite a show.

I belive it was just a show for my behalf? When they arrived a few months later--no disinfects. I know don't notice any safety precautions on their part. This was a few years ago. They came back this year to trim trees, and no disenfectant.

I fiqure we pay a lot for out electricity. PG&E should make sure they hire tree companies that are not spreading Suddden Oak Disease. Plus, it's costly to remove a diseased tree for property owners.