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Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by nether on Friday March 25, 2016 @10:17AM (#11360187)
The US Army is ditching the digital pattern for a more traditional, splotchy pattern, Scorpion W2: http://tacticalgear.com/ocp-acus
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by 33W on Friday March 25, 2016 @12:41PM (#11361048)
That's a fantastic page. I was in from '03-'08, and was issued woodland BDUs, desert DCUs, and finally the UCP ACUs. Multicam and the new OCP pattern have come since. I had 2 versions of the PT uniform (which have changed once or twice since), and narrowly avoided having to purchase the new dress uniform.

Overall, the Army needs to find a uniform that it likes and stick with it. Particularly for something that does not affect combat effectiveness (PT, Dress), a single style should be good for decades.

I think that the Army should define a garrison uniform that they can stick with, something along the lines of the BDU with the additional pockets of the ACU. Then define a combat uniform for different terrain or combat theaters as needed.

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by zeveb on Friday March 25, 2016 @02:35PM (#11361825)
> Particularly for something that does not affect combat effectiveness (PT, Dress), a single style should be good for decades.

Completely agree.

> I think that the Army should define a garrison uniform that they can stick with, something along the lines of the BDU with the additional pockets of the ACU.

The garrison uniform should be what the Navy terms a 'service uniform': polished leather shoes, trousers, a long- or short-sleeved blouse depending on the weather, and a cover, with optional coat and tie. It doesn't ever need to change, except maybe slightly in cut to keep up with civilian styles.

Camouflage should only be worn when actually fighting, or training to fight. Anyone sitting at a desk outside of a war zone should be wearing a service uniform, not camo.

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by monocasa on Friday March 25, 2016 @03:07PM (#11362003)
> Anyone sitting at a desk outside of a war zone should be wearing a service uniform, not camo.

But how will you feel cool if you're not wearing your BDUs?

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by vegardx on Friday March 25, 2016 @03:09PM (#11362018)
I find that the camouflage itself can be alright, but the way soldiers use it can make them stand out a lot. This became very apparent to me when I was a conscript and we had foreigners visiting, often to do winter training.

They would all be wearing just winter camouflage, brand new, extremely white, or just woodland. Making them stand out in basically any winter environment. We would, on the other hand, almost exclusively wear winter pants and woodland top, and make sure that the pants were kind of dirty. When the backdrop was, as it usually is, forest covered in snow, you stand out a lot with all white or all green.

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by cpeterso on Friday March 25, 2016 @01:36PM (#11361406)
This article describes how some of the camouflage field tests were performed:

http://www.stripes.com/news/reports-army-selects-new-camoufl...

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by oh_sigh on Friday March 25, 2016 @12:47PM (#11361086)
Makes sense - The article mentions that the only reason the squares were used in digital camo is because they had a 2" roller when making the tests, so that is the most natural shape
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by thearn4 on Friday March 25, 2016 @11:01AM (#11360393)
Having left the Army just as the awful ACUs were being phased in, I have to wonder which politicians and/or general officers got their palms greased for that to have become the uniform pattern.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by supremeanger on Friday March 25, 2016 @01:59PM (#11361590)
The trick with UCP is to roll around in the dirt and the lighter colors will blend in perfectly with your area and the darker shades will provide darker shades in your area. While this doesnt really work with sand it works perfectly with more traditional soils.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by GuiA on Friday March 25, 2016 @01:10PM (#11361208)
Ship camouflage, particularly "dazzle camouflage", is another example of a counterintuitive pattern at first making sense; see the first picture here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by cptskippy on Friday March 25, 2016 @02:18PM (#11361725)
Dazzle wasn't intended to hide the ship but rather make it difficult to ascertain it's class, speed and heading.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by vegardx on Friday March 25, 2016 @03:02PM (#11361972)
And with modern cruise missiles, where they acquire the target autonomously, identifying the best target (value, easiest, etc) and attack vector without human intervention, camouflage like this will once against be quite important.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by geon on Saturday March 26, 2016 @09:52AM (#11365642)
Also if you care about your privacy.

Camouflage from face detection: https://cvdazzle.com

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by hackbinary on Friday March 25, 2016 @03:09PM (#11362015)
I'm sorry, but you're statement is contradictory:

   a.) Dazzle wasn't intended to hide the ship
   b.) make it difficult to ascertain it's [sic] class, speed and heading

   Hide = hard to find
   Difficult = hard
   Ascertain = to know, to find out, to determine
The point of camouflage is to hide 'information', and while that can be to make something blend in with its location/surroundings, it can also certainly be to make it appear to be something else, or doing something different from what it is actually doing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camouflage

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by function_seven on Friday March 25, 2016 @04:29PM (#11362462)
You can't be serious with this.

"Hide the ship" means:

    All I see is open ocean, sir!
"Difficult to ascertain its class, speed, and heading" means:

    I don't know what kind of ship that is, sir! Nor do I know
    what direction it's traveling in! Hell, it's hard to see how
    fast it's going as well, sir! But I do know this, sir, there's a
    ship there.
But I think you're smart enough to figure that out.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by hackbinary on Friday March 25, 2016 @08:41PM (#11363809)
No, these are all degrees of the same thing, concealment. That is the point of camouflage. There are two main strands to camouflage: 1. prevention of detection (crypsis), 2. look like something else (mimicry).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_camouflage https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/camouflage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by function_seven on Friday March 25, 2016 @09:48PM (#11364067)
Oye. Ok, so the parent comment was this:

> Dazzle wasn't intended to hide the ship but rather make it difficult to ascertain it's class, speed and heading.

Here I am rephrasing it to fit your terms:

> Dazzle wasn't intended to [prevent detection of] the ship but rather make it [look like something else].

But for some reason you chose instead to read that as a contradictory statement?

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by kbenson on Friday March 25, 2016 @04:03PM (#11362285)
You're glossing over that what's being disputed is whether you are hiding the ship, or attributes of the ship. In one case, the purpose to prevent detection, in the other, it's to prevent useful action after detection.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by 99_00 on Friday March 25, 2016 @11:26AM (#11360575)
Digital camouflage has been used for a long time, with it's roots going back before WW2. Countries like the US and Canada who have advanced the technology. The main advantage seems to be it has more than one optimal viewing distance.

From wikipedia:

Traditional single scale patterns work well in their optimal range from the observer, however an observer too close or too far away will not see the pattern optimally. Nature itself is very often fractal, where plants and rock formations exhibit similar patterns across several magnitudes of scale. The idea behind multi scale patterns is both to mimic the cross-scale self-similarity of nature, and also to offer camouflage at close-range in addition to the traditional combat range camouflage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_camouflage

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by damian2000 on Friday March 25, 2016 @09:16AM (#11359821)
Shouldn't minecraft be replaced with 'pixelated' ... its really got nothing to do with minecraft has it?
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by PhasmaFelis on Friday March 25, 2016 @02:10PM (#11361668)
Nope. But this story is all over the internet today because the headline mentions Minecraft. Clickbait works.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by jonnathanson on Friday March 25, 2016 @09:21AM (#11359851)
The article's actual headline (though not the link title) uses 'Minecraft' in quotation marks. It's saying that the pixelated pattern resembles a series of Minecraft blocks -- not that there is any literal connection to Minecraft.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by optimuspaul on Friday March 25, 2016 @09:28AM (#11359882)
it's because the textures on the minecraft blocks look like the camo. has nothing to do with the blocks.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by jonnathanson on Friday March 25, 2016 @09:57AM (#11360068)
We're basically splitting hairs at this point. The camo pattern looks like the textures on the Minecraft blocks, or vice versa. It's not that the pattern literally looks like it's made of Minecraft blocks, and I'm sorry if I gave that impression.

This is one of the silliest arguments I've ever been involved in on the internet, and that's saying something. :) Can we just say "They used the word 'Minecraft' in the title because the camo kinda sorta looks like Minecraft textures" and move on with our lives?

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by seanmcdirmid on Friday March 25, 2016 @09:25AM (#11359871)
But minecraft is most definitely based on voxels (3D), not the pixels used in the camo (2D).
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by rtkwe on Friday March 25, 2016 @10:12AM (#11360158)
They're talking about the textures on the voxels which are blocky and pixelated like the tank textures. The same is true for a lot of games these days with the resurgence of 8-bit graphics but it's the one people will know the most.

http://i.imgur.com/yyKp9SC.png

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by seanmcdirmid on Friday March 25, 2016 @06:23PM (#11363161)
makes sense, thanks for explaining it to me!
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by thenadamgoes on Friday March 25, 2016 @12:41PM (#11361050)
Yeah. It's just digital camo. Its been used for a long time.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by mahranch on Friday March 25, 2016 @09:49AM (#11359997)
How is this a story behind "China's" camouflage? It's clearly a small blurb about the history of digital camo (or "texture match" camo") in general. The U.S has been using this for a long time, as well as dozens of other countries. Yet, the article doesn't do much to talk about China's application other than noting they too, use it (sometimes).
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by cvarjas on Friday March 25, 2016 @10:01AM (#11360095)
Agreed, mainly just some history of digital camo. Camopedia [1] has similar information, and it looks like China has been using these patterns since 2007.

[1] http://camopedia.org/index.php?title=Digital_patterns

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by mudetroit on Friday March 25, 2016 @10:20AM (#11360201)
I was more perplexed about the camouflaged vehicles being bright blue...
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by huahaiy on Friday March 25, 2016 @11:47AM (#11360728)
Those are amphibious fighting vehicles, used for landing from the sea. The sea, as we know, are blue colored.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by DanBC on Friday March 25, 2016 @11:52AM (#11360752)
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by huahaiy on Friday March 25, 2016 @12:03PM (#11360820)
These are not. But they belong to the same unit of those amphibious light tanks, so used the same camouflage. During a landing operation, these long range rockets are likely deployed on the decks of flotilla as artillery support for the beachhead assault.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by vonmoltke on Friday March 25, 2016 @01:56PM (#11361556)
Those are transporter erector launchers for the YJ-62 anti-ship cruise missile. They are deployed as shore-based defensive batteries. The coloring is likely intended to make them blend in with the sky (when viewed from the ocean surface) and the surf zone (when viewed from above).

As for deploying rocket artillery on ships, that wouldn't be a good idea. Firing platforms need to be better secured in order to be used from a ship. Regardless, China doesn't have many amphibious assault ships with significant clear deck space.

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by 33degrees on Friday March 25, 2016 @07:25PM (#11363501)
There's a section about it in TFA:

"Another conundrum with the modern camouflage design seen during China's Victory Day parade is that the vehicles feature bright blue painted blocks. Why? Some experiments have been done with bluish tones to break up the shape of vehicles against the sky on flat terrain, or for use in icy or snowy areas. “If the vehicles are amphibious then they might have some concealment during their water-based maneuvers, but the trade off for being highly conspicuous on land is not worth having it permanently,” believes Guy Cramer of Hyperstealth Biotechnology. In this case, the blue scheme is likely there for decoration. It certainly made the parade a spectacle, but further muddies the murky world of military camo. —JS"

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by ryanlol on Friday March 25, 2016 @10:47AM (#11360327)
Makes it harder to spot them against the sky.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by rangibaby on Friday March 25, 2016 @10:41AM (#11360292)
There are all different colors of camo depending on the environment it will be used in.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by DanBC on Friday March 25, 2016 @11:34AM (#11360630)
Where are tanks going to be used that bright blue is a good idea?
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by huahaiy on Friday March 25, 2016 @11:57AM (#11360782)
In the sea. When conducting a beachhead assault, these amphibious light tanks will come out of some giant amphibious assault ships, which are typically parked far away from the beachhead so enemy on land cannot see them. So the effect will be that a swarm of floating tanks suddenly appears and quickly approaches the land. This concept is obviously designed for an island invasion scenario.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by tokai on Friday March 25, 2016 @12:28PM (#11360959)
I guess blue could be a good color for a hull-down vehicle.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by jonathankoren on Friday March 25, 2016 @01:36PM (#11361408)
Gizmodo had a pretty good write up on the history digicam. It's interesting that the US Army abandoned it after they tried a one-camp-to-rule-them-all. Instead of helping soldiers hide in Afghanistan, it helped them be visible.

http://gizmodo.com/the-history-of-invisibility-and-the-futur...

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by sevenless on Friday March 25, 2016 @12:29PM (#11360968)
If "digital" camouflage with patterns of squares works so well, why don't animals use it?
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by njharman on Friday March 25, 2016 @02:28PM (#11361786)
The point isn't that it's digital but that it's small units that blend into bigger units.

Animals do https://www.google.com/search?q=bird+camouflage

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by oldmanjay on Friday March 25, 2016 @04:22PM (#11362404)
Most animals test things in a manner that relies on stumbling upon answers, but humans have evolved the ability to systematically discover things like this.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by gaius on Friday March 25, 2016 @12:59PM (#11361144)
Because a zebra is hiding from a tiger, since long before humans with ranged weapons were on the scene.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by oh_sigh on Friday March 25, 2016 @12:48PM (#11361089)
If internal combustion engines work so well, why don't animals use it?
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by sevenless on Friday March 25, 2016 @01:02PM (#11361159)
Engines (or wheels) need independent moving parts, high temperatures, which is hardly compatible with what's allowed by anatomy and biochemistry. But there's nothing obviously stopping animals from evolving any particular pattern of skin markings.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by mikeash on Friday March 25, 2016 @02:11PM (#11361677)
Skin markings are pretty complicated for an animal. Each cell somehow needs to "know" what color it should be, potentially different from its neighbors, without carrying any information unique to that cell.

Imagine billions of LEDs, and you want to make them display a picture, but you separately program them, you can't address them individually, and you can't even really have them talk to each other. You can sort of flood them with broadcasts of different strengths to influence how they turn on. The sorts of patterns you could form would be fairly limited.

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by dsmithatx on Friday March 25, 2016 @01:43PM (#11361462)
It seems like something is in fact stopping animals from evolving a pattern such as digital camo. I would think that entropy would lend more to the splotchy skin colorings we see on virtually all animals (with hair) versus square "digital" style blocks.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by electrograv on Friday March 25, 2016 @03:40PM (#11362174)
I have to wonder why they all have the same digital pattern. This seems like a terrible idea. It would be almost trivial to make a computer vision algorithm to pick these out against any background, as long as you know what digital pattern you're looking for.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by josefresco on Friday March 25, 2016 @09:45AM (#11359969)
An entire article about digital camouflage and they offer one measly 245 px wide photo 3/4 down the article. The linked article about the Chinese military parade only featured 1 decent image. sigh
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by DanBC on Friday March 25, 2016 @11:35AM (#11360647)
There are 3 images in the article, with a banner header image too.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by rwhitman on Friday March 25, 2016 @05:00PM (#11362651)
Satellite / drone camouflage.

I'm certainly not a military expert, but it seems fairly obvious that China's military would benefit from being able to hide from high altitude surveillance. They're not doing a whole lot with these vehicles in combat at the moment, but masking their position and numbers seems like a pretty important objective for someone trying to build up an arsenal without escalating tension.

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by narrator on Friday March 25, 2016 @04:36PM (#11362502)
I bet these tanks looks low-res from satellites.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by hackbinary on Friday March 25, 2016 @03:01PM (#11361968)
I'm not sure why blocky camo seems so revolutionary. It was proven highly effective in WWI by both the American and British. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by bradford on Friday March 25, 2016 @03:36PM (#11362153)
One, it's not clear that you can compare dazzle camouflage to digital camouflage. The design, as well as the visual attributes, are very different.

Two, the effectiveness of Dazzle was debatable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage#Effectivenes...

Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by diskcat on Friday March 25, 2016 @08:47AM (#11359716)
Next somebody is going to be telling me their camera has 20 mega minecrafts.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by ggggtez on Friday March 25, 2016 @03:27PM (#11362108)
The use of Minecraft in the title is pretty obnoxious.
Re:The story behind China's 'Minecraft' military camouflage by tajen on Friday March 25, 2016 @09:53AM (#11360032)
so you can take beautiful selfies of the landscape.