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Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by iaw on Thursday March 24, 2016 @02:09PM (#11355003)
This is pretty common knowledge within the industry. In fact, more than 4 years ago, they were already calling these users "Whales" (as a fishing metaphor) and actively catering to their interests.

There are people who will spend well over $10,000 a year to fulfill their compulsion for their "chosen" game. The advice in the article is actually rather asinine unfortunately:

>"Game creators should begin to look at pushing more sales after install. Swrve suggests this should be done one month after the game has been downloaded. Another way to keep keen players coming back would be to reduce the privileges given in purchases so they will need to buy more to play more."

It's implying that game creators haven't been carefully playing the analytics game since before freemium was a word. Any of these proposed changes will typically have catastrophic effects on the casual user base which could reduce game popularity and then tank the whale usage (depending on how much the game depended on network affects). Freemium games face the problem that TV networks do, there's too much alternative content out there.

>"Although, perhaps restructuring or ditching the freemium model might be the safest bet."

This is the right answer if you want to make good games. Freemium is an excellent model to optimization profit but it typically is directly counter to what can be considered a "good" gaming experience. The freemium games that have been largely successful (Clash of Clans, Hearthstone, Candy Crush, etc.) were all successful because they were easy to play for free, this garnered more popularity, which brought in more "whales" to support their creators.

I see mobile gaming as a race to the bottom, the margins are razor thin for the company, the pay is mediocre for the employees (as well as growth opportunities). Occasionally King comes along and wins it for a year but there are hundreds of these companies out there and the odds aren't good for them.

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by anexprogrammer on Thursday March 24, 2016 @02:53PM (#11355350)
> There are people who will spend well over $10,000 a year to fulfill their compulsion for their "chosen" game

Undoubtedly the free marketeers will downvote, but to my mind it's simply not ethical to make money feeding off someone's addiction in that manner. At least drinking, gambling and other compulsions have heavy (but inadequate) regulation. Freemium needs some regulation too.

Buying a monthly sub, at $15 to compare with WoW, or buying the game outright is at least a fair trade. You still get addicted but your business no longer depends on bleeding people dry.

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by zanny on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:04PM (#11355461)
Abusing mental illness is not taking advantage of voluntary exchange, so any reasonable free market / libertarian advocate would also not say "tough luck you have mental disease compelling you to behave irrationally".

It really is no different than how transactions done under compulsion are not fair or voluntary. If you are mentally compelled to participate through psychological manipulation, that is no different than someone pointing a gun at your head and telling you to give them your money, or using socioeconomic influential factors and market capture to force participation in unfair transactions (ie, monopolies).

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by hodwik on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:22PM (#11355627)
I would argue very few, if any, purchases are purely rational, non-addictive, and non-manipulative.

Most products play off of our own varying degrees of "mental illness" and addiction -- be that video games, coffee, high-calorie content food, cars, clothes, big houses, and so on.

Still, I'd rather be ill with my stuff than healthy without.

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by nommm-nommm on Thursday March 24, 2016 @07:04PM (#11357211)
So what about alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea, weed, sugar, or fat? And isn't the goal of all ads psychological manipulation?
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by zanny on Thursday March 24, 2016 @07:34PM (#11357407)
There is a difference between allowing the temptation, and exploiting psychological conditioning.

I'd definitely consider arguments that western culture has in many ways developed the advertising industry as a means of systemic psychological manipulation. There are a lot of people who make irrational purchasing decisions based on what is on the TV, and there is some degree of exploitation in that behavior.

Practically speaking we want to think that anyone over the age of 18 is a competent rational capable human adult with acceptable brain chemistry, but in practice I'd imagine very few people are perfectly healthy mentally, it is just the degree to which mental illness is apparent. Look at how common depression is, or how diagnostic rates for Autism and ADHD have risen dramatically in the last three decades. That is not to say we have more mentally ill people today, we are just paying more attention to individual psychological profile to deduce that there is much more nuance to mental health than just being insane or not.

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by iaw on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:03PM (#11355446)
I'm pretty disgusted with the bulk of the industry and their attitude. The company I was associated with, I felt, was doing more harm than good to the world by promoting a false set of idealistic beauty standards, promoting obsessive behavior, promoting competition based on physical attraction, etc.

I'm all for free markets but I'm not dogmatic in my support, the people that pay money for freemium games are going to be at a net worse position in life. There is an argument about free choice, whether the person would engage in another 'destructive' behavior, etc. but in the end I just felt the industry was focusing on being hyper-exploitive.

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by hutzlibu on Thursday March 24, 2016 @07:16PM (#11357299)
Thats the point, people choose what to do.

You, for example, have choosen not to work for people anymore who exploit others. Others maybe don't have your morale standards, and others choose to get exploited. Thats their way of life, not yours. You don't have to be part of things you don't want.

Thats what I think of free markets.

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by hashberry on Thursday March 24, 2016 @06:18PM (#11356935)
Interesting how you value money over time. WoW has bleed millions of gamer of their time, making them compulsively addicted, such as using incentives to make them log in every day (for "dallies" and other rewards). These gamers felt compelled/required to devote time to the game. Blizzard knew that they had to get as many subscribers as possible and keep them for as long as possible.
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by gozur88 on Thursday March 24, 2016 @07:09PM (#11357244)
The problem with that sentiment is where do you draw the line between someone who really loves to play certain types of games and someone who has some sort of mental problem?
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by Karunamon on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:55PM (#11355906)
Your "being bled dry" is the other person's "fun game I throw a few bucks at every now and then". What gives you (collective, not anexprogrammer) the moral authority to determine who should be playing what in what way?

And then advocating for government intervention on top of it?

This seems like legislating personal preference to me. Most of the moralistic arguments about game design tropes were already tried in the 80s-90s when the arcade was still a thing, and IMO, they're just as busted now because we're not talking about gambling.

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by sosborn on Thursday March 24, 2016 @02:15PM (#11355047)
> "Whales" (as a fishing metaphor)

You probably already know this, but for those that don't, this phrase was borrowed from the casino community. Seems apt, no?

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by Splines on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:14PM (#11355555)
I think the gambling industry could probably start taking tips from the mobile gaming industry now.

Free video-slots that give you "Casino Coins" (CC) that you can redeem for drinks/food.

The free games will be very, very basic (no multiplay or bonus features), and you might earn enough over a few hours for 1 free drink. Limit free game spins to a certain rate per hour.

Pay into the game and you'll get better unlocks. Pay continually and you'll increase a "combo meter" that will tilt things even more in your favor. Pay small extras that let you customize the video slot interface with your favorite characters, hats, sounds, etc. that are tied to your casino account rewards card.

Urgh.

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by awesomerobot on Thursday March 24, 2016 @06:01PM (#11356843)
You think the gambling industry needs advice? They're drowning in money last I checked.
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by icelancer on Thursday March 24, 2016 @04:10PM (#11356029)
A lot of this stuff is slowly being integrated done with points cards and the like, but laws on the books in the NGC prevent some of the more egregious stuff from occurring that violate privacy things.
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by blablablame on Friday March 25, 2016 @06:44AM (#11359371)
I went to a casino that sorta does this, but isn't 'free'. But for every dollar or so you spend, you get casino dollars to spend on food/drink (no idea of the real dollar to casino dollar)

Went there with a friend that spends a lot in slots and we all (party of 8) drank and ate for free because of that for the entire night.

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by ac29 on Thursday March 24, 2016 @05:27PM (#11356588)
How would the casino business stay afloat if 99% of its customers didn't spend money?
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by nkrisc on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:48PM (#11355859)
Don't forget the social network integration to broadcast their jackpots to their networks. Also, the cosmetic rewards should affect the outward display of the machine, so their status can be easily ascertained by others.
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by Splines on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:57PM (#11355925)
You could also have a mechanic where Casino Coins are earned automatically for your for a few days automatically, depending on your participation level. Visit the casino again and play some games to "wake" things up and get them going again.
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by iaw on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:29PM (#11355693)
You just came up with a great idea, I think there's only two or three casino game manufacturers in the world, one of them may want to pursue this. (Better than Big Bang Theory and Sex in the City)
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by Animats on Thursday March 24, 2016 @02:51PM (#11355329)
Note that it refers to gamblers who are big losers. Casinos have other terms to refer to players who regularly leave with more than they brought in.
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by nostromo on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:00PM (#11355414)
Don't leave us hanging. What's the term?
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by jdietrich on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:53PM (#11355885)
The industry calls them "advantage players", usually in the context of identifying and banning them.
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by RevHaze on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:19PM (#11355599)
Sharks, in poker at least.
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by ntumlin on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:35PM (#11355745)
And "banned", in the case of blackjack.
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by iaw on Thursday March 24, 2016 @02:48PM (#11355305)
I actually didn't know that, thank you! Completely makes sense.

I know it created some friction after a while when the company realized that calling users a synonym for fat, even if internally only and without that intent, was a bad idea (their game also targeted girls making it worse).

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by cpeterso on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:40PM (#11355787)
> There are people who will spend well over $10,000 a year to fulfill their compulsion for their "chosen" game.

John "Rotten" Lydon is a famous example:

  I wasted – you’re the first to know this – 10,000 f‑‑‑‑‑‑ pounds in the last two
  years on apps on my iPad. I got into Game of Thrones, Game of War, Real Racing,
  and I just wanted to up the ante. And like an idiot I didn’t check myself. I’ve
  been checked now. But there's a kid in me, see? A bit of my childhood was taken
  from me and I’m determined to bring it back.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/fameandfo...
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by mfoy_ on Thursday March 24, 2016 @02:38PM (#11355213)
I agree wholeheartedly; you basically summarized my thoughts on the matter.

And it isn't just mobile games, not is it just games. There's a race to the bottom in the entire content creation industry.

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by iaw on Thursday March 24, 2016 @02:50PM (#11355321)
I'm quite fond of what Blizzard is doing with Hearthstone (it is a take on the freemium model) but companies like that are the exception nowadays, not the rule.
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by ativzzz on Thursday March 24, 2016 @04:18PM (#11356095)
I think this is because Blizzard/Activision is already a successful gaming company with many years of experience of player retention (via WoW) and deep pockets. Thus, they don't need to squeeze every penny out of a user now if they know those users will come back every time a new expansion is released to buy more cards.

That said, there are still players who complain about it being too hard to get into the game for new players, but I think Blizz is addressing those issues decently well.

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by iaw on Thursday March 24, 2016 @08:28PM (#11357669)
Agreed on accessibility. I like the direction they're taking with the Standard and Expanded (or whatever they're naming it), I'm looking forward to it.

I made a conscious decision to monetize in the game early on so I dodged the monetization ramp challenges. Now it's just a problem of not having enough time to devote to ladder climbing.

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by kartan on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:03PM (#11355441)
> $10,000 Isn't this related to the actual growing wealth inequality? As the people in the top have more and the people at the bottom less, will it in a time to come make sense to create products only for the rich? 1,000,000 people paying $1 is the same amount of money than 100 paying $10,000.
Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by iaw on Thursday March 24, 2016 @03:16PM (#11355572)
I think business focus on profit growth is actually the predominant reason for growing wealth inequality (in the USA). We're coming off of an unprecedented history of market growth and prosperity in this country with consistent exponential returns.

Lower yields are unacceptable to businesses, even if they are part of a normal healthy economy, so they tighten wages for their workers and raise prices for their products (after running out of alternatives). This is a "double squeeze" on the working class. Not only do they have less money to spend, because they're paid less, but their cost of living goes up because every company is raising prices.

Couple that with speculative investors (new yuppies and Chinese nationals hiding money) targeting real estate as long-term rentals pushing potential buyers out of the market. They then renovate this housing into "luxury" and push the affordable housing out. It doesn't matter if these rentals sit empty for a while because the speculative investors are banking on continued property appreciation external of all rational reasons.

So, to sum:

- People are getting less money (relative to inflation)

- Prices are still rising (inflation keeps going)

- Speculation in the housing market is also increasing cost of living

For those people that spend >$10,000 a year, with a few rare exceptions, my expectation is that they live with an absurd debt load and eventually go bankrupt. I don't think this is a root cause but it definitely doesn't help people accrue assets.

Re:The mobile games industry is kept afloat by less than 1% ... by celticninja on Thursday March 24, 2016 @06:25PM (#11356987)
The 'whale' terminology is taken from casinos not from fishing.