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Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by sisk on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @09:30AM (#11253130)
Writing a bit about the Echo has been on my todo list but this article touches on a lot of points I was thinking about. I got it thinking it would be a bit of a gimmick—and to an extent, it still is at times. But, as the author found, it has snuck into facets of my life. Shopping lists, weather, home automation, etc.

The thing is, it's a natural interface with a decent interaction model. Keyboards, mice, etc, have all become second nature to most of us but they're still not truly natural. The Echo feels like one of the first voice-based interfaces that isn't a complete gimmick. And the hardware does an amazing job of perking up when I say the wake word and picking me out of a room full of noise.

What really convinced me of it's value was when I started digging in to writing a skill for it. My grandfather passed recently and my grandmother has horrible eyesight. I wrote a skill that enables my grandmother to ask to start a phone call. She is then asked who she would like to call. Once she says a name, she receives a call on her landline, is greeted, and the call is forwarded to the intended recipient. There was a small learning curve ("you can't just say, 'call John,' you have to ask her to 'start a phone call'") but it has worked and has provided an often confused elderly woman with poor eyesight a straightforward way of connecting with her loved ones.

Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by hammock on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @09:49AM (#11253226)
That's a touching use of Echo and wouldn't it be even easier on iPhone or Android? "Ok Moto X, call John." Instantly connected.

I have an Echo and I love it. The skills SDK is one of the best parts about it. The most common arguments against Echo though are that it's just your phone's voice service, but with less features and in a fixed location.

Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by sisk on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @09:57AM (#11253286)
In this case, the fixed location plus the far field mic are great. When she's alone, she spends all of her time in her home. She lives in a pretty small place which means she can basically ask to start a phone call from anywhere and she'll be able to interact with the Echo. It's as much the hardware as it is the platform that makes it all work in this case.

I have no doubts the tech could facilitate something similar on Google and Apple's platforms but, afaik, building comparable functionality isn't currently possible (at least with Siri)—can you add arbitrary commands to either?

EDIT: the quickest interaction I could get away with was, "Alexa, start a phone call with {name}". No back and forth. One statement and the echo simply confirms (which was optional).

Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by hammock on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @10:38AM (#11253533)
She can initiate the call from anywhere, and based on the description given she still needs to go over to and pick up her phone to complete the interaction.

I agree the ability to add arbitrary commands into Echo is a great feature, reminds me of ifttt quite a bit, which is usually a bit clunky yet very powerful.

Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by sisk on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @10:49AM (#11253611)
Yeah, that's one quirk I wish didn't exist. If I could make the Echo work as a speakerphone of sorts, that'd be amazing. That's one of my two asks (ability to get access to the microphone), the other being server-side interaction initiation but I recognize the massive potential for abuse of both so I'm not holding my breath.
Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by JasonInSeattle on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @08:20PM (#11256856)
Do we even know if grandma has a smartphone?
Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by bitdeveloper on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @09:57AM (#11253284)
For an elderly woman with poor eyesight, a fixed location landline that never needs updating or maintenance is probably preferred over an easily lost phone that needs to get plugged in, updated, etc.
Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by icebraining on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @11:29AM (#11253855)
As a grandson of two, nope. When one of them fell down, having a cellphone in her pocket allowed her to call for help, which she couldn't have otherwise. She still has a landline, but it has become an expensive decorative object.
Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by stronglikedan on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @12:27PM (#11254254)
> expensive

I pay ~$0.50/day for the peace of mind that I can call the police from any major room in my house, whether or not my cell phone is near me, or even has a charged battery for that matter. Also, that emergency services would immediately know my address when calling from my landline, so I could do as little as just call and hang up to get them there in an emergency. There are many benefits to maintaining a landline, and (cheap) cost is one of them.

Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by djrogers on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @03:12PM (#11255445)
>I pay ~$0.50/day for the peace of mind that I can call the police from any major room in my house,

You know you can cancel your phone service and still call 911 in many states (including the most populous ones)?

Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by stronglikedan on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @03:14PM (#11255456)
I did not know that, but I will certainly check into it. Thank you.
Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by MrMullen on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @03:31PM (#11255531)
You can also do this with Cell phone that works. I don't even think the phone has to have a working SIM card in it to call 911.
Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by jkestner on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @10:50AM (#11253613)
We're hungry for better design, and unfortunately technologically complex products are where the progress is being made. Case in point, Nest. So we take the bad with the good.

But yeah, in this case, there are big-button landline phones with speed dial.

Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by sisk on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @11:30AM (#11253868)
True and I totally agree that the simplest solution is generally the best and that not ever "problem" needs a technologically complex solution. Nothing worse than entering a "smart home" and being told not to use the light switches[^1]. :)

In this particular case, we've tried a big button phone. The problems with it are two fold: first, cataracts impact her straight forward vision and she's not able to remember button placement. Second, it's not uncommon for her to forget what she intended to do before getting there. The simple act of walking to the phone to initiate a call is enough time for her to forget who she wanted to call in the first place. At least in this case, she can act on the thought immediately and be reminded when she gets to the ringing phone.

[^1]: full disclosure: I can toggle my lights with my Echo. I use z-wave light switches though so people that aren't nerds like me don't have to personify the appliances in my apartment.

Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by scott_s on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @11:18AM (#11253793)
And yet, sisk's grandmother prefers this method. Even removing a small amount of friction can have big changes in how people behave with technology.
Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by peteretep on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @10:06AM (#11253338)

    > Shopping lists, weather, home automation
Funny, I felt the article gave unusually short shrift to Siri, which I use for all of those things, in addition to "What time is it in X?", alarms, and so on.

Siri is not working so well when music plays, and I wish I could easily add skills to it, so if they've cracked that then it's something.

Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by sisk on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @10:14AM (#11253390)
Those are the two biggest differences, for sure.

All the big players have done a good job of speech to text (at least for USA English—saw an Englishman have to break into his best John Wayne impression for an on-stage demonstration about a month ago). But the Echo hardware does a great job of isolating your voice and the platform allows us to write skills for it quite easily.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the other guys make steps in a similar direction if the Echo continues to succeed.

Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by neves on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @01:02PM (#11254524)
It's impressive how some Google services are worse for other languages. It is better understanding my poor spoken English than my native language. Even the simple dictionary doesn't a lot of basic conjugations that doesn't exist in English, like the for the pronoun "We". These subtle differences in technology are a great lever for English speaking countries.
Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by ghaff on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @10:22AM (#11253450)
There can be music playing and I can shout across the room to my Echo to add something to a shopping list and it gets it right most of the time. I use an old iPhone to play music on my stereo system. I'm lucky if I can get "Hey Siri, STOP" to work when music is playing even if I walk right up to it.

The Echo is still pretty "dumb" as soon as you deviate from fairly precise commands that it understands but the voice recognition itself is far and away the best I've seen.

The platform aspect is interesting even if I find it mostly still pretty gimicky. But it's got potential.

Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by Touche on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @10:38AM (#11253534)
I haven't used an iPhone in a while, does Siri have a wake word? Does it work when the phone is in standby? Android has "Ok Google" but it doesn't work when in standby and doesn't work from the distance that Echo does.

I think that's really its killer feature. You are in the pantry and notice you're out of basil, you say "Alexa, add basil to my shopping list" and it's done. No pulling out your phone, no unlock screens, you just say what you want to happen and it works.

Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by yoda_sl on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @10:46AM (#11253592)
As of the latest iPhone 6, you don't even need to have the iPhone plugged. You trained Siri a few times by saying a few sentences and later you can say "hey Siri" and it will start listening. Apple added some new chip which will be listening for that key sentence and will only react to your voice, not someone else. So no more funny joke from co-worker nor Podcast and in addition low battery impact.
Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by el_benhameen on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @11:22AM (#11253820)
As much as I want to like this feature, I've found it less than impressive. It rarely picks me up on the first try, so I find myself shouting a very clearly-enunciated "HEY SIRI" a few times, which kind of kills the magic. About 50% of the time I just end up walking over to the phone and using my hands to accomplish whatever I was trying to do. I'm not trying this from far away or in a noisy environment, either. Admittedly an anecdote, but still frustrating.
Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by ghaff on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @10:43AM (#11253566)
If it's plugged in, you can enable an iPhone to respond to "Hey Siri" as a wake phrase.

[EDIT: I have an iPhone 6. Apparently the latest models don't need to be plugged in.]

Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by jonknee on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @10:50AM (#11253617)
It does ("Hey Siri"), but it doesn't work from far away or when it's in your pocket. Echo definitely has the edge in that respect.
Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by mikelward on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @10:45AM (#11253581)
"Hey Siri" on iPhone 6s according to http://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/206240/why-is-alway...

Haven't tried it myself, so can't comment on the range.

Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by colinramsay on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @10:44AM (#11253574)
Prior to the 6S the phone had to be plugged in for the wake word ("Hey Siri") to work, but as of the iPhone 6S you can do it when running from battery. As you say, the microphone is not particular good at distance.
Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by jwoah12 on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @09:42AM (#11253194)
That sounds fantastic. We got my grandfather an Echo for the same reason. How can I get a hold of that skill for him?
Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by sisk on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @09:52AM (#11253246)
It's currently unpublished because there is an associated cost (Twilio for making the call) and it's not OSS because 1) needs cleaning, 2) was thinking of building a public service out of it.

That said, that's enough of a kick for me to actually clean it up and publish some stuff. I'll email you when I throw pieces of it online (in the next day or two). At the very least, I wasn't able to find a lib that performs all the steps Amazon asks of you to validate the request so I wrote a utility library and hapi auth plugin for that. I'll release those.

Made a quick demonstration video: https://youtu.be/TkVnhp4F1xk

Re:Amazon’s Echo Brims with Groundbreaking Promise by dominotw on Wednesday March 09, 2016 @11:22AM (#11253823)
What a great idea.I would like to do this for my grandmother too, but she doesn't speak english. It would probably take another decade before devices like these could understand other languages by then whole world would start speaking english anyhow.