News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by baldfat on Thursday February 18, 2016 @02:22PM (#11128505)
> Apple Apologies

I am an Apple hater BUT I have to say very proud of the new Apple and actually saying they made a mistake and apologizes. This and the fight for security are both things as a self proclaimed Apple Hater applaud Apple for doing. Good job!

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by Zezima on Thursday February 18, 2016 @04:14PM (#11129372)
If you've already pre labeled yourself as a "hater of X" they you're throwing away your ability to create new opinions and judgements when situations change.

This is not a healthy mentality to have about anything.

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by fenomas on Thursday February 18, 2016 @08:04PM (#11130761)
Principle of Charity, for hell's sake. There's no reason to assume they're saying "I have an irrational dislike of Apple which new evidence will not change" when "I've developed an unfavorable view of Apple and have been critical of them in the past" is just as reasonable an interpretation.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by ghayes on Thursday February 18, 2016 @08:18PM (#11130834)
To add to that, it looks like OP's entire post is how he's revising his opinion in light of new facts.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by baldfat on Friday February 19, 2016 @07:28AM (#11133083)
Well still don't like the locked down nature of their "Walled Garden" and the price of their hardware but I would like to think I am able to applaud a good deed no matter who does the deed.

We all have biases I just like to think I try to make mine more vocal :)

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by gregschlom on Thursday February 18, 2016 @04:45PM (#11129567)
> you're throwing away your ability to create new opinions and judgements when situations change.

Isn't that precisely what the OP did though? He created new opinions when the situation changed.

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by polack on Thursday February 18, 2016 @06:17PM (#11130174)
Exactly. It would be pretty stupid to only take the last event into account when judging something, but OP clearly showed that he could change his views despite not liking their history.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by RIMR on Thursday February 18, 2016 @05:28PM (#11129856)
It's called having a preference. I love PC gaming, so I call console gamers "peasants", but I totally own a PS4 and play Destiny all the time. I don't actually hate consoles, but I certainly hate on consoles.

I used to have an iPhone, but after it got outdated, I bought an Android phone. I also find OSX difficult to use and prefer Linux and Windows. I prefer Android, Windows and Linux, and think Google has better business practices than Apple. I guess you could also call me an "Apple hater", but I really just give people a hard time for having different preferences than I do.

I 100% stand behind Apple's standing up for security. I 100% support them backing down from their original justification of the intentional Error 53. I still prefer non-Apple things, so I'll advocate for it.

There's no real hate going on here. Every time there's a new console, the "Console Wars" heat back up again, but nobody really hates each other, they're just vehemently defending their personal preferences.

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by _frog on Thursday February 18, 2016 @11:35PM (#11131568)
> It's called having a preference. I love PC gaming, so I call console gamers "peasants"

Don't you consider this maybe a bit childish and petty? Having a preference is one thing, but that's no excuse for being dismissive and inflammatory.

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by baldfat on Friday February 19, 2016 @07:31AM (#11133096)
Well some people would call that fun. Seriously in the Northeast of the States the more we badger someone the more we actually care about them.

Outsiders say "Man, you hate that guy! me: What? he was my best man in my wedding last week! (True Story)

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by freehunter on Friday February 19, 2016 @09:54AM (#11133742)
If you heard the way I talk to and about my best man, you'd think I actually wanted to kill him. We're going to see Deadpool and have a few drinks tomorrow.

The reason we can say those things is because of how close we are to that person.

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by pluma on Friday February 19, 2016 @05:45AM (#11132765)
There's a difference between hate speech and playful insults.

In case you are not familiar with the culture: there is a longstanding tradition of playful insults between console and PC gamers as well as in gaming in general. There's nothing inflammatory about this, it's all in jest and the participants are aware of it.

It's childish, I suppose, but we're talking about video games after all.

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by reitanqild on Friday February 19, 2016 @08:50AM (#11133402)
Someone already explained a couple of times but let me chime in as well: I think opinions like yours (cracking down at completely innocent humor) is destroying to online culture.

Remember: we are a lot of different people here and if we should all judge each another based on our own backgrounds the noise level would likely increase to a level where most sane people left.

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by rnernento on Thursday February 18, 2016 @04:30PM (#11129483)
Sometimes a company takes actions I consider to be pretty terrible (e.g. Apple Maps, Sony removing functionality from the ps4). At that point I feel justified in becoming a "hater" of that company. Going forward I lean towards skepticism of the company and put the onus on them to win me back. Maybe I'm crazy but this feels perfectly reasonable.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by DonHopkins on Thursday February 18, 2016 @04:45PM (#11129568)
Yeah, there's Bad, and there's Apple Maps Bad. [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVq1wgIN62E

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by givinguflac on Friday February 19, 2016 @08:50AM (#11133403)
It was really bad at launch, but I find it better than google maps for navigation, though still trailing a bit on specific POI searches.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by freehunter on Friday February 19, 2016 @10:01AM (#11133783)
I really don't understand how Apple Maps, no matter how bad it was, could make someone hate the company. Removing functionality from hardware/software you already purchased, yeah that's pretty bad. Releasing a new app that isn't as good as the competitor's app... so what? Who cares? Just use the far superior and still available Google Maps like you were yesterday. It has literally zero bearing on your life. If you hated every company that put out a crappy app or buggy 1.0 release, you'd be a very angry person indeed.

Remember Google Reader? Google+? Wave? Buzz? Every company puts out shitty apps now and again.

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by rnernento on Friday February 19, 2016 @10:07AM (#11133817)
Except Apple Maps pushed out Google Maps on the phone which can no longer function with Siri. The only thing I found Siri useful for was asking directions while driving. Once Apple Maps took over those directions started taking me places I didn't want to go so essentially the Apple Maps release removed functionality from my phone.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by chasb on Friday February 19, 2016 @12:42AM (#11131834)
Dude, his post was "I CHANGED MY MIND"
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by na85 on Thursday February 18, 2016 @06:17PM (#11130169)
Holy self-righteousness, Batman.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by SmellyGeekBoy on Friday February 19, 2016 @05:52AM (#11132783)
Better to be a lover of all things technology than to potentially miss out on the good things all these companies have to offer by arbitrarily picking sides.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by knd775 on Thursday February 18, 2016 @05:07PM (#11129709)
Off-topic, but any relation to the runescape legend Zezima?
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by nothrabannosir on Friday February 19, 2016 @03:48AM (#11132403)
Ironically, this post only describes itself. Not the one it is addressed to.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by thefrog on Thursday February 18, 2016 @04:15PM (#11129379)
Precisely correct and more eloquent than my own thoughts on the matter. Thank you for being more civil than I. :)
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by rogeryu on Thursday February 18, 2016 @05:34PM (#11129897)
It's not only the recent fight, but the way they implemented it in iPhone 6, with the Secure Enclave. The fact that they created something that is so secure that they cannot hack it themselves blew my mind.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by m_mueller on Friday February 19, 2016 @12:29AM (#11131774)
Is there any reading about how this is safe against side channel attacks? My go-to assumption is that any device in the physical possession of an attacker is only as safe as the attacker's motivation X is below the required amount of work Y to do a side channel. I wonder though why the FBI aren't just doing this - is it really not possible for them, or is this all just a bluff to make their targets feel safe using an iPhone?
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by cookiecaper on Friday February 19, 2016 @01:48AM (#11132032)
The FBI is making a court case out of it because they want to obtain legally-binding precedent which will allow them to force companies to make it as easy as possible to access locally encrypted data. If the United States cared enough, they would undoubtedly have the resources to perform any needed attacks themselves. I'd be surprised if the NSA didn't already possess a copy of iOS's source code (Apple was a PRISM participant, which means prior to the Snowden leaks, they were voluntarily transferring all user data to the NSA for analysis; just seems iOS source isn't such a big deal after that).

The FBI is taking this public at a politically opportune time to try to make it so they can order this type of thing for any digital device they physically possess.

There's also a bit of me that thinks the timing is also a convenient way to influence the presidential election. Law enforcement groups are heavily Republican. Encryption has been a topic brought up in the debates. Dems usually say things like "We just need to ask nicely and they'll help us out, I know it"; to your average voter, this is proof-positive that that's not true, and it gives the law-and-order candidates remaining in the GOP field (which, I guess remaining are Cruz and Bush? This would've helped Christie and hurt Fiorina) a very powerful amplifier for their anti-crypto positions.

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by Drdrdrq on Thursday February 18, 2016 @04:49PM (#11129589)
Why the newfound respect? I mean, do you think Apple would try to patch things up if there was no class action lawsuit?
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by jonknee on Thursday February 18, 2016 @05:33PM (#11129890)
Apple has settled cases (various defect cases come to mind) and fought others (eBook price fixing), legal action alone doesn't mean much to Apple.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by craigyk on Thursday February 18, 2016 @05:40PM (#11129931)
It's not entirely clear cut, but IMO apple was also in the right when it came to the ebook price fixing.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by baldfat on Friday February 19, 2016 @07:36AM (#11133111)
Wait, what? So you up for "Price Fixing?"

> " So the reason why price-fixing is illegal, and also unethical, is not that it hurts consumers. The key reason is that it violates one of the basic requirements for markets to work efficiently. In order for markets to function with anything approaching efficiency — never mind fairness — several conditions must obtain: for starters, there must be sufficient information in the hands of both buyer and seller, and the costs of transactions must be borne by the participants, rather than spilling over onto bystanders. But most important for the present case, markets can only be efficient if buyers have real options — that is, if no seller has the power to bully the market. Behavior aimed at letting one seller, or a group of sellers, bully the market is contrary to the requirements of efficient markets." http://businessethicsblog.com/2013/06/07/price-fixing-not-ju...

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by incepted on Thursday February 18, 2016 @08:37PM (#11130916)
If anything, they are sorry they got caught. If they could get away with it, they would definitely have continued to kill jailbroken phones as much as they can.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by rimantas on Friday February 19, 2016 @03:52AM (#11132413)

  > to kill jailbroken phones
You mean fixing exploits in iOS?
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by cptskippy on Thursday February 18, 2016 @03:19PM (#11128976)
With the amount of publicity that Apple gets, it would be silly for them to not properly address this issue in a way that both furthers their current pro privacy stance but also caters to their customers.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by thefrog on Thursday February 18, 2016 @04:03PM (#11129296)
Any time I hear the term "Apple hater" with no justification or reasoning, I can't help but think that person is of the lowest intelligence.

(Or Android hater, or any other tech "hater" for that matter. Why can't we accept that companies do different things without proclaiming ourselves as "haters"?)

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by goldbrick on Thursday February 18, 2016 @04:27PM (#11129467)
So you're saying you're a hater hater? Nice passive aggressive slam btw.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by DonHopkins on Thursday February 18, 2016 @04:49PM (#11129592)
The paradox of tolerance arises when a tolerant person holds antagonistic views towards intolerance, and hence is intolerant of it. The tolerant individual would then be by definition intolerant of intolerance. [1]

“The so-called paradox of freedom is the argument that freedom in the sense of absence of any constraining control must lead to very great restraint, since it makes the bully free to enslave the meek. The idea is, in a slightly different form, and with very different tendency, clearly expressed in Plato.

Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.”

― Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

[2] http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/25998-the-so-called-paradox-...

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by CamperBob2 on Thursday February 18, 2016 @05:56PM (#11130041)
How does Popper address the staggering power imbalance required to use force to suppress intolerance? Can genuine tolerance ever exist in a society where the strong dictate what is politically correct?

"Tolerance," to me, has a simple definition: whoever uses force first is the one who's intolerant. I'd be curious to know how Popper avoided the same conclusion.

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by skj on Thursday February 18, 2016 @09:55PM (#11131234)
So intolerance exists only through violence? That seems wrong on its face.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by CamperBob2 on Thursday February 18, 2016 @09:59PM (#11131251)
How so? If I don't lift a finger against you (and that includes voting to use government-based force against you), then why is it important for you to control what opinions I can express?
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by DonHopkins on Friday February 19, 2016 @08:50AM (#11133409)
It's not about controlling which opinions you can express, it's about how to react to them. It's possible for both of us to be intolerant without resorting to physical violence or government-based force.

If you express an intolerant opinion, it's important for me to express that I think you're full of shit and why, and that I won't tolerate it, without physically lifting a finger against you, or otherwise trying to destroy your life or well being. That's how and why freedom of speech works. It doesn't indemnify you from the consequences of expressing your opinions.

I am fully justified in expressing my intolerance of your intolerance without resorting to violence. I'm not going to wait for you to go as far as to hit me in the face or spend money on a propaganda campaign that's actively trying to destroy my marriage (for example), before I verbally express my intolerance of something you said or did.

But if you donated to a political campaign that results in destroying my marriage, or if you're the executive director of an organization dedicated to that cause, and I find out that you've been having gay sex orgies on the low down, or cheating on your wife on Ashley Madison, then it's totally justified for me to publicly out you, and if your wife decides to divorce you or FRC decides to fire you upon learning that, then it's between you and them, and what I did was totally justified, no matter how much you feel like playing the victim.

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by CamperBob2 on Friday February 19, 2016 @02:47PM (#11136056)
I don't see where we disagree. Like voting for an intolerant political candidate, I'd consider donating to them to be use of force. It's no longer a matter of simple "intolerance" once that happens. At that point I've lifted a finger, so to speak, just as if I'd paid a thug to beat up some gays outside a bar.

Simply expressing verbal support for the candidate, on the other hand, wouldn't be an instance of the use of force.

The passage from Karl Popper you quoted contains the problematic language, "But we should claim the right to suppress (utterances of intolerance) if necessary even by force." That's where an arbitrary exercise of unequal power comes in. Unless Popper is claiming that an external source of morality exists to decide who's allowed to respond to speech with violence and who is not, he's on very shaky philosophical ground.

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by EdwardDiego on Thursday February 18, 2016 @05:47PM (#11129975)
> I can't help but think that person is of the lowest intelligence.

Oh no! Someone has an opinion you disagree with! Clearly, they're stupid.

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by baldfat on Friday February 19, 2016 @08:03AM (#11133195)
I'm the hater: I thought they were givens when dealing with "Apple Haters" I can go off the top of my head!

Original Mac replaced the over $10,000 Lisa for a quarter of the price then left the color option off the market for over a year. (My dad was buying the first Mac when the color one comes out ended up with an Amiga).

Amgia: Apple lied about the capabilities of the Amiga. My Amiga 1000 at 7.16 MHz could run an emulator of the MacOS at 7.8336 MHz BOTH on the same 68000 CPU and the Amiga out preformed it in benchmarks. The Mac took many years to catch up to the Amiga. Amiga had analogue colors and Mac had a extremely limited range of colors that were digital.

You ever have to service the old Apple Printers? WOW they were HORRIBLE!

Even worse did you ever have to work with Token Rings?!?!?! I will never be able to read Lord of the Rings without going into a rage about the 1990s networking with these beauts!

The "Pro-Tools" era of Digital audio. Even after the need for proprietary hardware for I/O was over (1998 or so) they continued to sell many many thousands of dollars inputs based on false information provided by Apple.

Lies: No malware or virus. No crashes. - No OS is safe (They even use to suggest that people have an anti-virus program running on OS X on their website) Still today OS X and Apple software crashes all the time on me. Just Sunday a mission critical part of the presentation refused to work till after a hard reboot and re-install of the software.

Litigation as a tool to stop competition.

Present Day: Price Fixing which breaks down the rights of the buyer to have the power and knowledge in purchasing (This is why it is illegag.

Walled garden - I'm an old school Hacker who prefer Linux and open hardware.

Macs life span is so short presently. Apple doesn't even tell you what the life span of their OS releases will be (Unless that changed recently)

30% commission on apps, books and well everyone's work. This causes Apple (Google also guilty of this) to make more off of people's work then the creators do. This is part of the reason why we had the EBook price fixing issue.

OS X and Apple Software UI is very limiting and causes me to go mad trying to remember what the "Apple Way" is. My biggest pet peeve is Final Cut does not have a Render for the longest time. I had to always go search for the way to just pre-render and final render video projects to export. This made me look silly BUT Final Cut added render as an actual term a few years ago. Render was the technical word for all video editing EXCEPT Final Cut!

I could go on for much more and I am sure you disagree with all of it, but to say someone disagrees with something you prefer as being unintelligent just means you have your own bias that allow you to believe you are smarter due to your preferences.

Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by esailija on Thursday February 18, 2016 @06:09PM (#11130120)
Apple hates developers so many developers hate apple, that enough reasoning for you?
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by zepto on Thursday February 18, 2016 @06:40PM (#11130332)
Apple doesn't hate developers.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by esailija on Thursday February 18, 2016 @07:24PM (#11130549)
They want developers to go against their best interests and only develop apps for a very small portion of users. They don't want to compete fairly with developers, making some capabilities inaccessible to developers while keeping them accessible to themselves. If you as a developer are ok with this, it must be some kind of stockholm syndrome.
Re:Apple Apologizes and Updates iOS to Restore iPhones Disab... by zepto on Thursday February 18, 2016 @06:40PM (#11130331)
No