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Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by stcredzero on Monday December 07, 2015 @03:53PM (#10692605)
I think NASA should capture an asteroid and place it into a stable Lagrange point. The mass of the asteroid could provide resources, radiation shielding, and additional gravitational stability for other facilities/assets at the same Lagrange point.

If suitable engineering is done, stations could undock from the radiation shield and updated stations docked in place, so the investment in delta-v and materiel could be preserved.

Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by akira2501 on Monday December 07, 2015 @06:08PM (#10693491)
Lagrange orbits aren't that great in the long run, and come with their own unique set of challenges (from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_point#Mathematical_details):

"Although the L1, L2, and L3 points are nominally unstable, it turns out that it is possible to find (unstable) periodic orbits around these points, at least in the restricted three-body problem. These periodic orbits, referred to as "halo" orbits, do not exist in a full n-body dynamical system such as the Solar System. However, quasi-periodic (i.e. bounded but not precisely repeating) orbits following Lissajous-curve trajectories do exist in the n-body system. These quasi-periodic Lissajous orbits are what most of Lagrangian-point missions to date have used. Although they are not perfectly stable, a relatively modest effort at station keeping can allow a spacecraft to stay in a desired Lissajous orbit for an extended period of time. It also turns out that, at least in the case of Sun–Earth-L1 missions, it is actually preferable to place the spacecraft in a large-amplitude (100,000–200,000 km or 62,000–124,000 mi) Lissajous orbit, instead of having it sit at the Lagrangian point, because this keeps the spacecraft off the direct line between Sun and Earth, thereby reducing the impact of solar interference on Earth–spacecraft communications. Similarly, a large-amplitude Lissajous orbit around L2 can keep a probe out of Earth's shadow and therefore ensures a better illumination of its solar panels."

Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by adevine on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @12:18AM (#10694958)
Your quote, though, is talking about L1, L2 and L3, which are the unstable Lagrangian points. Parent was talking about L4 and L5, the stable points.
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by akira2501 on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @01:36AM (#10695131)
Earth-Moon L4 and L5 is still very unstable due to the Sun (and other planets).

Earth-Sun L4 and L5 is more stable, but almost useless as a waypoint; however there are already naturally captured asteroids (and a lot of dust) already there.

All orbits require station keeping in a dynamic solar system that is circling around a black hole.

Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by lxmorj on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @12:59AM (#10695052)
If the asteroid has any water, station keeping won't require external fuel. If it doesn't, mass drivers could be used to toss chunks of the asteroid off and correct for instability (though that might create space debris if the velocity isn't enough).
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by LeifCarrotson on Monday December 07, 2015 @07:11PM (#10693831)
By shielding, do you mean that astronauts could live inside or behind the asteroid, just using its mass between them and the sun? That would be pretty dark and cold. As far as I know, no asteroids have major magnetic fields.

I am totally with you on using the asteroids for materials, but I am not sure that they would provide useful gravity either. Even one of the largest near-earth asteroids, 433 Eros, only has a surface gravity of 0.0059 m/s^2. Is that useful?

Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by stcredzero on Monday December 07, 2015 @07:23PM (#10693914)
By shielding, do you mean that astronauts could live inside or behind the asteroid, just using its mass between them and the sun?

I mean that the habitable modules would be located inside silos embedded within the asteroid, so that the living space would be entirely surrounded by radiation shielding mass.

That would be pretty dark and cold.

The problem in space is generally getting rid of heat. Vacuum is a great insulator, insulation material is effective and relatively cheap, and radiative cooling is fairly slow. The other thermal problem is exposure to direct sunlight. The asteroid as a shell of massive shielding would help in this regard.

Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by mcguire on Monday December 07, 2015 @10:18PM (#10694554)
The largest thing NASA has moved above low earth orbit since the early '70s is, what, Galileo? How many orders of magnitude are there between G and your asteroid?
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by ethbro on Monday December 07, 2015 @10:58PM (#10694698)
To paraphrase Shawshank Redemption, "That's all it takes really, pressure, and time."

With enough time, and high enough specific impulse/in place fuel extraction, you can move anything.

Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by celias on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @06:14AM (#10695771)
Cassini was launched in 1997 and weighed over two and a half times what Galileo did (5712kg vs 2223kg). Still several orders of magnitude less than an asteroid.
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by rm_-rf_slash on Monday December 07, 2015 @04:43PM (#10692946)
I know little of space physics, but wouldn't the additional gravity of an asteroid disrupt tidal patterns on earth?
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by Pinckney on Monday December 07, 2015 @04:58PM (#10693046)
No. Any asteroid we could reasonably capture is much too small to have any significant impact.
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by nerfhammer on Monday December 07, 2015 @07:33PM (#10693944)
What if we mess it up and it comes tumbling toward earth?
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by personjerry on Monday December 07, 2015 @07:57PM (#10694040)
This is the sort of thing we would verify the calculations of, many times, and consider problems ahead of time.
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by InclinedPlane on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @12:45AM (#10695022)
We lack the ability to move a large enough asteroid to do any serious damage.
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by Pinckney on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @03:54AM (#10695436)
Not yet, but perhaps in the near future. The National Space Society has a proposal up for capturing 99942 Apophis via gravitational slingshot, which would be fairly damaging if we managed to crash it.
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by 8note on Monday December 07, 2015 @08:39PM (#10694217)
it would likely burn up on entry
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by slyall on Monday December 07, 2015 @05:44PM (#10693367)
Lets put it this way. The largest asteroid in the inner Solar system, Ceres has a mass of 1.3% of the moon.

The size of asteroid we are talking about here is likely to be closer to a container ship or maybe a small hill. Perhaps 1 millionth of the size/mass of Ceres at the most.

Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by orik on Monday December 07, 2015 @04:06PM (#10692704)
why not the moon?
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by stephengillie on Monday December 07, 2015 @04:36PM (#10692896)
Why not halfway between us and the moon? It could be an easy-to-reach halfway point for the Moon, a refueling station and very-low-g launchpad other points, internet relay base, and also have commercial, industrial, and housing areas.

This could be an interesting new step in human modification of the environment - "orbitforming" (like terraforming?) a better solar system. It's like razing a hill to make way for farmland or better city building conditions.

An asteroid that's easy for vacationing billionaires, mining companies, and highly-pollutant industry to reach would be a great next step for humankind.

Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by ch4s3 on Monday December 07, 2015 @04:27PM (#10692837)
LEO is an orbit around Earth with an altitude between 160 kilometers (99 mi), and 2,000 kilometers (1,200 mi) The moon is on average 384,400 kilometers (238,900 miles) away. The Moon(ish) is where NASA is headed, LEO is what they're leaving behind.
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by mcguire on Monday December 07, 2015 @10:26PM (#10694582)
Don't be silly. Shoving around a mountain is laughably beyond NASA's capabilities. Moving the moon would be ridiculous.
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by stcredzero on Monday December 07, 2015 @04:35PM (#10692892)
why not the moon?

The L2 Lagrange point is "behind" the moon.

Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by robbiep on Monday December 07, 2015 @07:37PM (#10693964)
SEVENEVES
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by mirimir on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @12:26AM (#10694974)
Well, that was a big chunk of ice (comet core) and they stuck a bare fission reactor core in it to make a steam rocket. And they had robot swarms to mine/shape ice. It's a very cool book, though!
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by InclinedPlane on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @12:46AM (#10695023)
Do you not remember the asteroid that was attached to the station from the beginning of the story onward?
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by mirimir on Tuesday December 08, 2015 @01:21PM (#10698226)
Doh! But he didn't say how they moved that.
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by pmoriarty on Monday December 07, 2015 @04:10PM (#10692726)
Those with the power to capture and steer asteroids also have the power to direct them at targets on Earth.
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by deegles on Monday December 07, 2015 @04:14PM (#10692754)
Those people would likely also have access to nuclear weapons, what's your point?
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by colordrops on Monday December 07, 2015 @05:51PM (#10693406)
I don't know what the grandparent's point was, but I believe that kinetic weapons are exempt from space weapons treaties, hence the "Rods from God" satellite designs.
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by evanriley on Monday December 07, 2015 @04:38PM (#10692911)
I'm sure if someone wanted to destroy the earth, there are far more manageable ways to do that.
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by Estragon on Monday December 07, 2015 @05:59PM (#10693444)
Yeah, you could just pump CO2 into the atmosphere for a couple of centuries until greenhouse effects make it uninhabitable.
Re:NASA official warns private sector: We’re moving on from ... by mturmon on Monday December 07, 2015 @06:04PM (#10693475)