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Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by nsxwolf on Thursday October 15, 2015 @10:28AM (#10393321)
What I'd like is an easy, cheap DVR solution for OTA. Mostly I'd just like to be able to pause and rewind live TV. After cutting the cord, it's like living in the 80s again shouting at family members to be quiet when you need to hear something.
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by car on Thursday October 15, 2015 @12:50PM (#10394248)
Not exactly easy or cheap, but a data point for you:

My OTA DVR for the last 8 years setup has been a PC with Windows Media Center. Apart from the setup, there is no monthly cost for the guide data, as with Tivo etc. Right now this runs on a NUC, with a SiliconDust HD Homerun (HDTC-2US) living in my attic, which transcodes the OTA MPEG-2 to H.264, saving tons of disk space. A nice side effect is that I can archive shows (e.g. NOVA episodes).

P.S. One interesting tidbit I remember from a Tivo ad (but can't dredge up right now), based on their users TV consumption stats, apparently ~ 87% of what people watch is available OTA.

Edit: Windows Media Center was dropped from Windows 10. The replacement will be Xbox One DVR functionality, coming 2016.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by dtparr on Thursday October 15, 2015 @01:34PM (#10394586)
Interesting, I have a similar setup, but with the old standard PCI-based tuner that just pulls the data and dumps it. I hadn't seen a tuner option that would transcode it on the fly. Is there any noticeable lag when watching live? Does the WMC still record it in the standard wtv format, just with a different video codec?

What's a rough size estimate for a 1-hr show? Can you adjust the amount of compression or otherwise tweak the h.264 encoding parameters?

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by car on Thursday October 15, 2015 @04:33PM (#10395805)
Transcoding happens on the fly, in hardware I assume. The compression is configurable, from a very high quality 1080p profile, down to more lossy streams for mobile devices, 3 profiles total IIRC (non tweak able). The highest quality mode is _almost_ indistinguishable from the OTA signal. No lag or stutter, whatsoever.

An added bonus of the transcode is the reduced bandwidth in the LAN. Previously I needed CAT5 for a stable ATSC stream, now Wifi suffices (e.g. to iPad/iPhone). There is an app for the iPad, to watch those streams. On iPad Air 2 it renders 1080p without lag.

Also, putting the HD Homerun in the network let's one get away with a small head unit (in my case an Intel NUC).

You are correct, the resulting files are still wtv container, but with h.264 stream inside. VLC can play them fine. Not sure about conversion to MPEG4.

A 1-hour show comes out around 1.5GB (from memory), maybe less. Much better then before.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by dtparr on Thursday October 15, 2015 @05:09PM (#10396014)
Great info, thanks. That's a 4-6x size improvement from what I'm seeing now, so that'd be very helpful. Probably actually cheaper to buy this than just get a larger HDD.

I'd looked at options that would auto-transcode recordings on disk, but they generally changed enough things that it wouldn't maintain the metadata and/or otherwise treated them as individual videos and not episodic content.

One last question, do you happen to have any extenders? I'm using an xbox 360 as an extender and I wonder if it can play the h.264 encoded video.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by car on Saturday October 17, 2015 @01:50PM (#10405324)
I did indeed have a Linksys extender, which stopped working completely after upgrading to MC on Windows 7. Don't know about the 360.
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by pjc50 on Thursday October 15, 2015 @03:21PM (#10395334)
How do you get WMC to transcode?
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by car on Thursday October 15, 2015 @04:35PM (#10395815)
The transcode happens upstream, in the HDTC-2US. It then streams the transcoded broadcast to your WMC PC.
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by analyticsjam on Thursday October 15, 2015 @10:31AM (#10393343)
Silicondust is releasing their DVR in the next month or two. I'm in on the kickstarter but not at the level that is currently testing. There are also dedicated devices for people less tech savvy.

https://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/hd-homerun-dv...

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by McGlockenshire on Thursday October 15, 2015 @06:57PM (#10396520)
I'm really looking forward to the Silicondust DVR software. I was never able to make MythTV work correctly for me.

I've been using Windows Media Center with an HDHR Prime, but the quality of the WMC listing accuracy took a huge dive around the time when they announced they've halted development and would not provide a version for Windows 10.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by flyinghamster on Thursday October 15, 2015 @12:23PM (#10394064)
Maybe not "easy" but relatively cheap: http://www.mythtv.org/

Add a HDHomerun tuner box (NOT the HDHomerun Prime, which is a CableCard tuner), and it works quite nicely.

Easiest setup is with Mythbuntu http://www.mythbuntu.org/

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by dtparr on Thursday October 15, 2015 @01:46PM (#10394692)
Again, another not super cheap option is Tablo[0].

It's different than most since it doesn't actually have an HDMI plug, but rather it's basically just a back-end box than records off an antenna and then can play back on its app on most of the standard devices, Roku, Chromecast, Apple/Android/Fire TV as well as Android/iOS mobile devices and desktops via Chrome.

You'll likely want a subscription at $5/mo or $150/life, but you can do basic live recordings/pausing and such without it [1].

[0] - http://www.amazon.com/Tablo-HDTV-Antennas-2-Tuner-Wi-Fi/dp/B...

[1] - https://www.tablotv.com/tablo-products/tablo-guide-data-subs...

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by jessaustin on Thursday October 15, 2015 @02:32PM (#10395020)
It's kind of amazing to me that they can get $200 for that. Since it doesn't have video out it's positioned as a "network device", which is perfectly valid since we already have roku and chromecast. Except, it can't use NAS? I'm thinking there must be a cheaper option for getting OTA into e.g. Plex. [EDIT:] Also there must be some EPG service for cheaper than $5/mo?
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by dtparr on Thursday October 15, 2015 @03:05PM (#10395233)
Yeah, I'd like NAS support as well. I think their thinking is that the variability introduced by the network speed (especially since they advertise it with wifi), might cause unexpected failures that they won't see with a usb drive. They seem to be riding the line between a "just works" appliance and something more configurable. I'm surprised, frankly, that there's not an option to just get the HDD bundled with it and call it a day, in order to guarantee the user is using a known-good HDD.

If you already have a home server, this is probably not as good of an option as you could just add some software and a dual tuner for $75-100. The EPG thing is more of a hassle once WMC gets deprecated. For mythtv and some others, you can do schedules direct for $25/yr. There are some free setups I've seen using scripts and such, but they mostly seem to be held together with twine and bailing wire and seem likely to break if a 3rd party decides to crack down.

For someone who's looking for a whole-house DVR though without running a bigger media setup though, it seems reasonable.

If you find a good appliance that'll get stuff onto a NAS on the cheap using reliable EPG, I'd love to see it.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by joezydeco on Thursday October 15, 2015 @12:25PM (#10394072)
ChannelMaster is another option:

http://www.channelmaster.com/Antenna_DVR_s/336.htm

You should follow /r/cordcutters, they track this stuff obsessively.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by narrowrail on Thursday October 15, 2015 @12:52PM (#10394271)
I just mentioned them in another comment, but I'm not a redditor and so it took me a long time to figure out this is possibly the best solution. Are the manufacturers of all these solutions present in that subreddit as well?
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by lfowles on Thursday October 15, 2015 @10:50AM (#10393474)
I use a Homeworx dvr. Have to supply my own USB hard drive and deal with a goofy interface (not that you'll see it just for pausing live TV), but otherwise it works well. It can buffer live TV for a decent amount of time too.

http://www.amazon.com/Mediasonic-HW-150PVR-HomeWorx-Converte...

I bet you could get quite a ways with a 16 gig flash drive on there too, if you don't want to save recordings.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by nsxwolf on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:47AM (#10393827)
Is it true that you have to remember to proactively put it into a special mode to pause live TV?

I might tolerate that shortcoming at that price, though.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by lfowles on Thursday October 15, 2015 @12:08PM (#10393959)
No, where did you see that? It isn't constantly buffering live TV though. What I do is pause and go fix a drink for a few minutes and that gives me ample ability to fastforward commercials. I'm actually not completely sure about how rewinding works on live TV, since I almost exclusively let it record my normal shows for later.

Edit: from one of the Amazon reviews:

"It does let you pause live TV (temporarily recording to the hard drive just like the DVR does). However, unlike the DVR, this unit does not automatically record anything so if you missed something and want to see it again, too bad - unless you had previously entered into "Timeshift" mode by pressing Pause. Therefore, assuming you have enough hard drive capacity, it's probably best to press Pause then Play at the start of watching anything to let the thing start saving to the hard drive- then you will be able to Rewind, Pause and Forward through content that was buffered. (all the more reason you should use a big hard drive and not USB stick). While in Timeshift mode, you cannot change channels until pressing Stop."

That's true, but is as simple as hitting pause, I don't really think of it as a special mode.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by curiouscats on Thursday October 15, 2015 @12:32PM (#10394131)
I have a HomeWorx HW180STB and it worked great. I have an old HDTV without an internal receiver. I have only used it to watch over the air sports (otherwise I use Netflix).

I haven't tried the pausing TV (or recording TV) yet. I think this coment will inspire me to try out the recording and pausing.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by HelloMcFly on Thursday October 15, 2015 @12:56PM (#10394295)
The Xbox One allows pausing and rewinding of live TV, but not recording.
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by car on Thursday October 15, 2015 @04:43PM (#10395859)
Recording OTA TV on Xbox One has been announced for Q1 2016.
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by HelloMcFly on Thursday October 15, 2015 @06:49PM (#10396481)
I had not seen that, thank you. Slowly but surely, the Xbox One pushes my Roku out of the picture.
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by SSilver2k2 on Thursday October 15, 2015 @10:42AM (#10393426)
TiVo Roamio OTA edition.

$50 box and $9.99 a month subscription. All the great tivo features, access to apps (netflix, youtube, etc) and a great FAST user interface.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by nsxwolf on Thursday October 15, 2015 @10:44AM (#10393436)
Subscription is a deal breaker. I just want to be able to pause and rewind free TV signals. I'm willing to pay once for a device to do that but not a subscription.
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by gk_brown on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#10393722)
When I got my TiVo a few years ago, you could buy a lifetime subscription. I think it was about $300, which seemed pretty reasonable. I've had the unit for almost 4 years so I've definitely broken even on it.

They still seem to offer a lifetime plan, but now it costs $600. That's a bit harder to justify.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by thaumasiotes on Thursday October 15, 2015 @12:07PM (#10393946)
What recurring service are you notionally paying for every month??
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by function_seven on Thursday October 15, 2015 @12:27PM (#10394094)
I think the channel guide data. Without it, the TiVo doesn't know when to record what. $10 still seems very pricey for that though.
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by joezydeco on Thursday October 15, 2015 @12:30PM (#10394117)
Tivo Roamio OTA ($49.99) will let you do this if you never activate the subscription. You can use the tuner and buffer the broadcast stream.
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by narrowrail on Thursday October 15, 2015 @01:58PM (#10394787)
This never came up in my research (although I was biased against Tivo), but I just checked and it said:

"$14.99 Monthly service with 1-year commitment"

Do you (or anyone else) know if the Tivo will work without an internet connection?

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by joezydeco on Thursday October 15, 2015 @03:21PM (#10395329)
Yes, it will work without an internet connection.

I bought a Roamio OTA for my mother-in-law, who has no internet. I set it up at my place (it usually wants to upgrade to latest firmware over wifi when you unbox it), scanned for the OTA channels, then I took it to her place and wired it up.

The operation without monthly activation is bare-bones. I mean, you don't even get channel or station names. But you can tune to prescanned OTA channels and watch tv and pause it live.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by LVB on Thursday October 15, 2015 @10:43AM (#10393431)
I guess $250-400 isn't "cheap", but for easy: http://www.channelmaster.com/Antenna_DVR_s/336.htm

Our family has used their previous model for years with great success. Dual tuners, program guide (picked up OTA as well), and no fees or subscription.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by nsxwolf on Thursday October 15, 2015 @10:49AM (#10393463)
That looks nice, but is a bit steep especially if you still have to provide your own storage. Still, best I've seen so far, thanks.
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by eludwig on Thursday October 15, 2015 @01:06PM (#10394366)
I can vouch for this model. Works great. I think it gets the guide over ethernet. It comes with a jack for that, or you can get an optional wireless USB dongle.

The interface is decent, nothing great, but better than most cable provided boxes. I've got mine hooked up to a 2TB usb drive I had laying around. Worked immediately.

It has reasonably good recording options. It can do string matching, so you can say "record any new shows with the word 'Masterpiece' in the title." That kind of thing.

I recommend it.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by narrowrail on Thursday October 15, 2015 @02:05PM (#10394829)
I don't have any first-hand knowledge, so thanks for that.

However, it is my understanding that if you hook this up to the internet it gets its EPG from Rovio. OTOH, if you do not link it, it will have a crappier, yet sufficient EPG from OTA signals. I believe Rovio gives EPG 2 weeks out, but EPG via OTA is 2 days out.

Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by hbosch on Thursday October 15, 2015 @10:34AM (#10393361)
Unfortunately, we are not allowed to have Aereo.
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by Yhippa on Thursday October 15, 2015 @01:33PM (#10394580)
Broadcast TV as a service is what I want so badly. Beats hooking up an antenna dongle to your laptop or PC. At any rate since OTA reception is poor where I live I just don't watch TV if the signal is bad. Really hoping Playstation Vue becomes available where I live.
Re:The TV antenna is making a comeback by lucaspiller on Thursday October 15, 2015 @10:33AM (#10393357)
Maybe it's different here in Europe, but most Smart TVs have had this functionality for the last few years - they store recordings on a USB drive. Before DVB tuners were integrated you had to get an addon receiver box, I have one from 10+ years ago that has a 80GB HDD to do exactly this.