News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by larrywright on Thursday October 01, 2015 @07:44PM (#10315614)
I think that what Apple has done here is an acceptable tradeoff. The app store trades a small amount of privacy for a lot more security. Looking at Android's perpetual issues with this makes me think that Apple made the right choice.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by devit on Thursday October 01, 2015 @08:50PM (#10315905)
Security? What security?

Every single release with iOS has been totally broken security-wise, as can seen from the existence of jailbreaks.

Apple doesn't even require seeing the source code, and so there is no way they can stop malicious applications written to evade detection from getting to the App Store.

And thanks to their policy you must browse with Safari WebKit, which is a nice juicy ~40% browser share target.

Of course, both Android and Windows Phone are broken too, since they also expose oversized monolithic kernels written in C to random applications, but at least Android doesn't require you to give up freedom to get non-security.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by johncolanduoni on Thursday October 01, 2015 @10:41PM (#10316375)
> Every single release with iOS has been totally broken security-wise, as can seen from the existence of jailbreaks.

The jailbreaks for recent versions of iOS only allow jailbreaking unlocked devices, at which point security is already compromised.

> And thanks to their policy you must browse with Safari WebKit, which is a nice juicy ~40% browser share target.

In iOS 8 they allowed other apps to use the same JIT engine Safari does[1]. This makes me inclined to take them on their word when they say it was previously disallowed for security reasons (some early jailbreaks could be done just by visiting a web page, using security holes in Safari's javascript JIT).

[1]: http://9to5mac.com/2014/06/03/ios-8-webkit-changes-finally-a...

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by glhaynes on Thursday October 01, 2015 @11:08PM (#10316489)
The jailbreaks for recent versions of iOS only allow jailbreaking unlocked devices, at which point security is already compromised.

What? You must mean something else because unlocked devices aren't (necessarily) compromised.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by johncolanduoni on Thursday October 01, 2015 @11:23PM (#10316556)
> What? You must mean something else because unlocked devices aren't (necessarily) compromised.

I mean compromised in the sense that the malicious party now (for example) has access to the user's email, and would be able to reset a whole host of passwords for online services (assuming they don't use 2FA or something similar, which most users don't). If they wanted to install a keylogger, or get saved passwords, then yes they still have to jailbreak my device. This xkcd is relevant: https://xkcd.com/1200/

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by glhaynes on Thursday October 01, 2015 @11:35PM (#10316588)
I think we must be using "unlocked" in different ways. I'm intending it in what I think is the conventional way for this context: when the device's cellular subsystem is not electronically locked to a particular cellular service provider.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by johncolanduoni on Thursday October 01, 2015 @11:40PM (#10316604)
You're absolutely right, I should've picked a different word. I mean unlocked in the lock-screen/password sense. Of course, messing with carrier settings is not easily done even if the phone is not carrier-locked, and pulling of an exploit that way is even more difficult.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by tim333 on Friday October 02, 2015 @03:01PM (#10320544)
>Security? What security? Every single release with iOS has been totally broken

Here's a recent report from computerworld - Malware infections delivered via mobile networks - Windows 80%, Android 20%, "iOS and other operating systems were at nearly negligible percentages"

Nothing's perfect but iOS isn't that bad.

(Window's numbers seem to be mostly pcs with tethering. "Data generated from scans by Alcatel-Lucent's Motive Security Guardian technology, which is deployed worldwide by both mobile and fixed-line networks, and monitors traffic from more than 100 million devices")

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2984444/mobile-security...

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by JustSomeNobody on Thursday October 01, 2015 @10:57PM (#10316451)
I love Apple products, but please stop. Please. Do not be blind to the fact that Apple has to remove apps from the app store often due to security issues. And most of what you hear about on the Android side is either blown up in the media or because people side load apps from ... questionable sources.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by kenrikm on Friday October 02, 2015 @01:21AM (#10316857)
You're kidding me right? Android applications are allowed to run daemons that will continue to run if you like it or not. [1] Due to Google's lax review process basically you can write a virus and post it to the store.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by 5ersi on Friday October 02, 2015 @05:04AM (#10317428)
demon (long running task in the background) != virus

Virus' primary function is to replicate itself and infect other hosts. You can not simply install apps (or viruses) on other mobile devices without user intervention. Also viruses need access to system and/or other apps to be able to propagate itself, which is not the case on mobile platforms.

None of that things is true for demons.

Btw, iOS also has long running processes if you register proper functionality (VoIP, background download..) when submitting the app to App Store. Also iOS and Android apps can be awaken from the server and perform tasks without user noticing it.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by JustSomeNobody on Friday October 02, 2015 @04:59PM (#10321296)
Why would you think allowing daemon processes are bad? You want notifications without having your app front and center, right? Need a daemon for that.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by tadfisher on Thursday October 01, 2015 @11:15PM (#10316520)
I'm not sure knowing what users purchase makes the App Store any more secure. I'm pretty sure limiting what users can install on their devices is a different sort of tradeoff -- one of freedom for security.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by nnutter on Thursday October 01, 2015 @07:55PM (#10315667)
Apple might just be better at covering it up. I would rather see it implemented like GateKeeper on OS X is. Safe store with the user having the power to decide if they leave the store or not.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by fpgeek on Thursday October 01, 2015 @08:10PM (#10315741)
While I applaud the spirit, I don't think actually implementing it like GateKeeper is a good idea:

http://arstechnica.com/security/2015/09/drop-dead-simple-exp...

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by oneJob on Thursday October 01, 2015 @11:50PM (#10316633)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -B.Franklin, baby
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by gozo on Thursday October 01, 2015 @08:21PM (#10315789)
So we have forgotten XcodeGhost already or the iCloud hacks?
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by jolux on Thursday October 01, 2015 @08:25PM (#10315806)
Neither of which would be aided by opening the walled garden?

Which isn't to say I don't think there are advantages to Android's model and that of more open package repositories in general, especially for power users. However most of Apple's base is people who don't care about openness or extra repositories, they want their iPhone to work with a minimum of fuss and not have to worry about malware like you do on Android.

The fact that we can only point to a single (XcodeGhost) cromulent exploitation of the Apple App Store stack is a testament to how good Apple is at maintaining the relative security of the iOS ecosystem.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by gozo on Thursday October 01, 2015 @10:51PM (#10316425)
The point is that security is not an inherent or necessarily attainable feature of a walled garden. Some people seem to think that just because Apple approves apps there isn't going to be any security issues. The approval process does prevent some security problems, and has some other features, but mobile security overwhelmingly comes from things like sandboxing.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by jolux on Thursday October 01, 2015 @11:59PM (#10316668)
Perhaps that's the case, but if it is, then it seems clear that Apple's sandbox is far better than Android's as well. Also, approving apps does cull out a range of malware, because it is human- and computer-analyzed before entry. As I said previously, this has its downsides, but it does make it harder to get malware into the iOS App Store. Not impossible, but harder.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by bottled_poe on Thursday October 01, 2015 @08:35PM (#10315847)
Wasn't XcodeGhost a direct result of bypassing Apple's security model?
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by gozo on Thursday October 01, 2015 @09:05PM (#10315951)
As far as I know the users didn't. Which is to say that the App Store doesn't provide much more security than e.g. a black list. Androids problems are more than anything having a fragmented ecosystem.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by IBM on Thursday October 01, 2015 @08:26PM (#10315810)
XcodeGhost wouldn't have happened if developers weren't able to disable Gatekeeper and the iCloud hack was done with phishing for security question answers.

http://gawker.com/feds-seized-chicago-mans-computers-in-cele...

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by gozo on Thursday October 01, 2015 @08:54PM (#10315915)
The iCloud hack was enabled by the automatic backup feature that despite storing very sensitive information didn't provide adequate security for doing so. If there were actual precedent for Apple caring about their users privacy, there would be outrage over this rather than being trivially dismissed.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by IBM on Thursday October 01, 2015 @09:44PM (#10316107)
That's not relevant at all to the iCloud "hack". It's a cloud service, the whole point is to store data online.

Those accounts were breached because celebs were phished and not because of bruteforcing, as some people were speculating at the time, or some other vulnerability.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by muddi900 on Thursday October 01, 2015 @10:35PM (#10316344)
Everyone gets phished. Fraud happens. Secret Questions are especially susceptible to phishing attacks. This has been known for about a decade. Apple had not updated the security protocols for iTunes, and in turn App Store and iCloud, for that time. The hack was definitely Apple's fault.

'"In total, the [500] unique iCloud accounts were accessed 3,263 times," the document states.' - http://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-investigation-into-the-fa...

This was a massive failure in Apple's part.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by gozo on Thursday October 01, 2015 @11:32PM (#10316578)
Yes, how can one trust a company's claims about privacy when the seemingly lose no trust over even such a high-profile incident? Celebrities phones has been targeted since at least the T-Mobile Sidekick.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by vezzy-fnord on Thursday October 01, 2015 @08:19PM (#10315777)
The security benefits come mostly from curated package management in general, not limiting the device to one particular repository (the App Store).
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by javajosh on Thursday October 01, 2015 @08:47PM (#10315890)
I don't think the public is sophisticated enough to understand the decoupling of these two ideas. But I also think that one day, probably soon, it will be.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by vezzy-fnord on Thursday October 01, 2015 @08:59PM (#10315929)
Technical users are members of the public, too.

If you want to treat users like infants, then you should hereby completely forfeit any and all rights to complain about "tech shortages" and technical illiteracy of end users.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by javajosh on Thursday October 01, 2015 @10:00PM (#10316175)
So, this is a meta-comment because it's really just about your comment, but I feel compelled to point out the unnecessary negativity, and the unforced errors, so to speak, in representing my words, what I want, and what I've done. I'm not even sure what to call it when you create things I cannot do any longer to maintain consistency with my position - but without any evidence that I've done those things, or want to do those things. It's something like a straw-man argument.

The right thing to do is to ignore it, but on the off-chance that you might be somewhat self-aware, I thought I'd give you the opportunity to catch yourself.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by vezzy-fnord on Thursday October 01, 2015 @10:05PM (#10316202)
Apologies, the vitriol wasn't directed towards you, specifically. You simply gave me an opportune moment to express dissatisfaction with the paradoxical desire of simultaneously wanting more locked down devices in the name of convenience and "security", while also making programming and/or CS a compulsory school subject.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by pyre on Thursday October 01, 2015 @10:35PM (#10316349)
> "security"

Why the scare quotes? Just because it doesn't provide 100% security doesn't mean that it provides no security.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Privacy Is a Fundamental Human Right' by orangecat on Thursday October 01, 2015 @09:17PM (#10316001)
Which means they're making the wrong choice allowing Macs to run unapproved software, right?