https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byPopularity&prefix&page=0&date...

On the one hand, no one should have to go through what he did. On the other hand, the fourteen-year-old version of me would've happily put himself in handcuffs for a chance at getting out of my cow-town high school.

The far more important subtext (and the reason that most of these stories take off) is that they are often indicative of larger phenomena. Most kids facing racism or having their creativity stifled by their schools _don't_ have their stories blow up and so their stories are nothing but "net negative".

They however will just say they were following the rules. The rules put student safety high on the list, and events like Columbine and others only make the risk/fear higher.

Schools are limited in what they can do to/for problem students. What that means in practice is that to limit the threat from a problem student they suppress the privledges of all students. This avoids the stigma of "singling out" someone for special rules.

In a more functional system the rules would allow for things like electronics projects and pocket knives and what not, and when a student did some damage that student would be pulled from the school and moved elsewhere. Unfortunately that puts students with an unstable home life more at risk of being expelled than students with a stable home life, and if, through suspension, you end up segregating the school along student problem lines, it often correlates with other student traits which you can specifically not discriminate against. You can take on the burden of defending a bunch of lawsuits from suspended students, or you can just strip all the students of the opportunities.

And this leads to zero tolerance policies for non-obvious reasons.

What we haven't internalized as a society yet is that this is much more damaging to the societies eventual stability than the whole segregating thing would be. We have yet to learn how to run a system where people can readily move back and forth from the 'offender' side of the street to the 'cooperates' side of the street. Thus a trip to the offender's side leaves a stain that gets harder and harder to erase, regardless of maturity, later. It can be really hard to listen to people who have been imprisoned for life because of a mistake they made in their teens, which now prevents them from ever reaching their potential.

Its not a simple positive or negative -- it depends on what people do because of it, only some of which is now known.

That's a stupid policy too, but a different kind of stupid.

Zero percent tolerance, one hundred percent stupidity.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/16/9338747/mark-zuckerberg-fa...

-Signed (all the people who wish to piggyback onto this terrible situation for the sake of publicity)"

Maybe some big powerful person should be talking to the people that caused this situation, rather than promising the world to the victim? Misunderstandings like this are going to keep happening until way after the worlds' elite run out of personal stock for their recommendation letters.

Now Zuck and even the President invite him to visit for the same reasons (because he is a muslim who created a clock and brought it to school) and everyone is excited about this.

In my opinion both acts are seemingly being done for the wrong reasons. It's sad really, because now the boy will never know if he is being invited out because he created a cool clock, or because helping minorities is good PR. It's also disappointing because of all the other kids out there who are working hard on making things that will never get attention because they are not being discriminated against.

Zuckerberg, Obama, Clinton, Dash, and others are overcorrecting for this in order to ensure that the kid doesn't get dejected and discouraged from being a maker.

There's already far too much ostracizing of nerds and geeks in school to add powerful adult actors like school principals and police into the mix. I don't see any room for 'mixed feelings' here.

We just have to hope that the kid comes out of this as happy or happier and as or more successful than he'd otherwise have been.

While you, I, or anyone else might debate the novelty or inventiveness of what the kid made, I'm sure he genuinely thought it was cool, and was excited about it.

Then, after asking if he could bring it in and show it off, he was wronged.

I want to believe they're inviting him because they don't want to stifle his spirit, and that not only is it good PR, it's also a message to kids who are interested in technology that they should absolutely pursue it, and to not get discouraged.

Wait....what? You think they're inviting him to visit because he's a Muslim student who made a clock? Do you really think he's the only Muslim student who's made a clock? I'm pretty sure it's because he was a student whose school reacted to his inventiveness by having him arrested (and of course because Obama/Zuckerberg heard about it). Even aside from the racism side of things, it's a fairly explicit symbol of the endemic squashing of children's creativity that makes the American school system such a (relative) disaster.

Does having something happen to you instantly qualify you to receive insightful recommendation letters from strangers though?

The Internet has developed an overly powerful hero amplification beam it shines down when things happen to someone, but does it necessarily reflect the person themselves? Sudden unrelenting Internet-powred fame (either as the receiver or the giver of fame) can drive some people a bit mad after the fact too.

I like Obama 'n all, but in today's world of technology(this is about a student building a clock, unprompted)... I believe the opinion of Facebook's CEO tech-geek outweights Obama's.

I'm tempted to believe that people are just dumber than they were when I was a kid, but the truth is that this sort of thing is a freak accident. A hundred kids bring something like this into school and it's virtually guaranteed that one will eventually hit school administrators that are low on the bell curve.

Also, I'm seeing a lot of "Texas" in comments to this story. It's really unfair. I'm here in the DC metro surrounded by highly educated latte liberals, and they're some of the most paranoid parents in the country. Don't think for a second this wouldn't happen in, e.g., Silver Spring (where those parents got CPS called on them for letting their kids walk home from school).

Take the reddit stereotypes back to reddit.

-Smart, civic Texan with smart Texan friends.

Last year, an article about the least LGBT-friendly places in the US was published [0]. Irving landed at #2. That same article mentioned that Dallas proper was one of the most LGBT-friendly places in the US. It's not much of a stretch to say that this applies not just to LGBT people but to all kinds of people that the crazy right-wing fundamentalists dislike, including smart people and Muslims. From my personal observation having lived in Dallas and Richardson all my life, I can vouch for this. It's widely acknowledged here that Dallas is a very progressive city and that Irving is a shithole.

Besides, most of our tech industry is concentrated in Richardson [1]. Between UTD, TI, and the Telecom Corridor, Richardson is a pretty damn good place to be if you're smart.

[0] http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/11/22/247-...

[1] Richardson is a suburb to the northeast of Dallas in the same way that Irving is a suburb to the northwest of Dallas, so it's a pretty apt comparison. Actually, Dallas is kind of shaped like Godzilla: on a map of city limits, Richardson and Irving look like they sit on Dallas's shoulders (though Irving is kinds leaning off the edge).

My general observation as an outsider in Texas (Dallas 3 years and Austin 4 years) is way off from yours. It's not a question about right wing hatred, that's just hyperbole. There is an attitude in Texas where if "you aren't one of us", you don't belong here (in a subtle way). That in my opinion is undeniable. I bet if this incident was at Highland park, the result would be the same.

Or we could assume for a moment that not every event requires a politician's commentary.

I didn't need to see Obama or Zuck's responses before I had determined (for myself! Imagine!) that the school's actions were absurd, overblown, and counter-productive.

Perhaps you should do some research as to the response of some Texans to this travesty (e.g. http://motherboard.vice.com/read/dallas-hackers-are-already-... ) before you resort to the tired "Texas means backward and stupid" meme.

A pox on the politicians. They'll spin this eight ways to Sunday and nothing will be accomplished.

No, not every event. Just the ones that give the impression that there is an ongoing systemic abuse of the very rights and principles that America is founded on.

The fact that you brush this off as unimportant is exactly the problem here.

And how does "absurd, overblown, and counter-productive" (my words) translate into "unimportant"?

The words of politicians are generally unimportant, as they are easy to come by and seldom backed by action. That was my point. Must I too engage in today's Two Minutes' Hate to pacify the Outrage Patrol?

This is just an off the shelf alarm clock disassembled and crammed into a box from Target. I see an AC cord going to a bridge rectifier, a transformer, 9v battery holder, a display driver board and a long thin PCB for buttons. Here is a similar clock with a 2.5" tall display: http://i.imgur.com/1FceYfG.jpg

I mean, he probably needs a bit of advice about mains wiring and safety. He can probably get that when he's being shown the Mars rovers (or any of the other stuff kind NASA people have invited him to)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/ahmed-mohamed-arrested-clock...

EDIT (after several comments) I mistakenly thought this was a briefcased sized case, but it's not, it's much smaller. There's a battery connector for scale. So, I shouldn't have said "fucking huge LED". It's just normal size LED clock.

Ergo, bomb.

I'd love this to be parody, but it seems to be the literal explanation here - with a side order of revenge for having an uppity father:

http://www.vox.com/2015/9/16/9339063/ahmed-mohamed-elhassan

I bet the guy knows very well that the Sudanese politics are farce and he was just playing along maybe for the limelight or to play the controlled opposition part so Al-Bashir can claim that he wins in a free and fair elections.

[1]https://twitter.com/AnneClaireCNN/status/644158607035133952

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7030096.stm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-33705944

(The explorer Sir Ranulph Twisleton-Wykeham-Fiennes while on service with the SAS used to work out how to efficiently use explosive, allowing him to keep small amounts after training exercises. He accumulated a small stock of explosive which he used to demolish an ugly damn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranulph_Fiennes

)

Anyone have a guess what that thing actually is?

> The principal threatened to expel him if he didn’t make a written statement, he said.

> “They were like, ‘So you tried to make a bomb?’” Ahmed said.

> “I told them no, I was trying to make a clock.”

> “He said, ‘It looks like a movie bomb to me.’”

This is what happens when people in charge have no clue anymore what is inside electronics. Computers and smartphones are just "magic".

A tiny modicum of common sense from the police or school authorities would go a long way here.

"If you didn't want to get raped then you shouldn't have dressed that way."

How he was treated (and profiled based on his skin color and name) was wrong. To suggest anything otherwise is victim-blaming.

  I'm not defending what happened, but I'm just pointing
  out that this could have been easily avoided.

  If I walk into a gas station with a ski mask and my hand
  in my jacket, I'm not breaking any laws. But I have enough
  common sense not to do that.

  s/common sense/privilege/rg

You want a better comparison? You are saying "I have common sense not to be a black man loitering in public." As if black men should be harassed by law enforcement at any turn. You are saying "I have common sense not to be a woman dressed (some subset of) the population finds scandalous." As if her body were owned by the public and not herself and as if it weren't her prerogative to dress however she damn well pleased.

The illogical behavior / lack of common sense is completely on the part of the system. There ought not be a suggestion other than "fix the broken-ass system."

Second of all, I labeled my analogy as "extreme". Perhaps you missed that, or once again maybe it's just that your reading comprehension skills are lacking. I used an extreme example to illustrate my point clearly.

The common sense to not bring a hollywood-macguyver-homemade-electronic device into a school knowing full well there are incompetent, conservative-minded administration who will judge you based upon your name, appearance, and the fact you have a bomb-looking electronic device. Right or wrong, it's PREDICTABLE and puts yourself at meaningless risk with no upside.

Once again, this might be WRONG. But it is PREDICTABLE. This is the concept of idealism vs realism. The way the world is versus the way the world ought to be. Perhaps this type of conversation is above your head though.

  I did not suggest what happened to him was RIGHT 
  (which would qualify as suggesting otherwise). I
  said it was PREDICTABLE.

  Second of all, I labeled my analogy as "extreme". Perhaps 
  you missed that, or once again maybe it's just that your 
  reading comprehension skills are lacking. I used an 
  extreme example to illustrate my point clearly.

  Once again, this might be WRONG. But it is PREDICTABLE. 
  This is the concept of idealism vs realism. The way the 
  world is versus the way the world ought to be. Perhaps
  this type of conversation is above your head though.

In no world real or imagined was that something he should have been concerned about. Or the parents. In the real world, you fight the dickwagons who hurt you or your son. And in the ideal world, it never even happens.

To reiterate the point of my previous criticism: the illogical behavior / lack of common sense is completely on the part of the system. There ought not be a suggestion other than "fix the broken-ass system." Don't tell people what to do on the basis of a racist and dehumanizing system. You're perpetuating that shit.

It's inside a small case, with exposed wires, and a digital display. You're really naive if you don't think that's going to raise any eyebrows.

If some kid is passionate about cooking, should he bring in his homemade flour in small unmarked plastic baggies and start selling it to all his classmates? Completely within anybody's right to do that, but OBVIOUSLY a stupid idea. That's the category this kid's homemade clock falls under.

  OBVIOUSLY a stupid idea

The only OBVIOUSLY stupid thing (/ person) is you suggesting that he shouldn't have done what he did because of a very wrong status quo.

Your analogy is nearly as dumb as you. More accurate is "if a kid loves cooking, should he bake cupcakes and bring it in for his classmates? YES."

Should a kid get arrested for bringing in cupcakes? Obviously not. And if there are assholes in the school who arrest kids who bake cupcakes? Well, they can suck it, and hopefully people don't sit around and let it happen without a response. #thanksobama You don't call kids who bring cupcakes to school stupid.

--

What you construe as "reality" and what you judge as stupid or smart adds nothing to the topic. If the intent of your post was to say "the status quo of conservative america sucks," you're saying something everyone knows. If you're saying (and this is what your text ends up conveying) "it's stupid to exercise your rights," this is the problem. You don't get to blame victims. Nowhere in your commentary are you saying the aggressors are responsible for changing course. You only say the kid should have changed course. You call him stupid for his actions. Do you yet see how that's shitty of you?

I'm not saying that the whole thing isn't ridiculous, but I'm skeptical that this is the full story. Honestly, I'm as familiar with working on circuit boards as the next guy, but if I saw someone (anyone, any race) carrying something like that in an airport, it'd raise an eyebrow.

In short, yes, it perhaps wasn't the greatest idea for Ahmed to be walking around in school with something that could be perceived as a bomb, but you'd think the police/school administration would have figured out he meant no harm after he told them several times that it was simply a clock. The outrage here is over the extreme reaction, not over the wisdom of his actions.

This part of the issue has been less focused on than the racist angle, but the fact that kids are scared to tinker because of the zero-tolerance hyper-sensitivity of schools is in my mind the more interesting part of the story.

You're probably not wrong, but it's hugely sad to me that you consider it a bad idea to bring in a personal project, with permission, advance notification, and repeated clarifications of what it actually is, simply because it "could be perceived as a bomb" (which means it has wires?). I can't think of a better way to discourage kids from tinkering around with electronics.

While I suspect that a lot of this is due to a generational divide between administrators and students, the message this sends is that students should not be interested in science and engineering because those topics sort of abstractly distant and scary. Students should be ENCOURAGED, not punished for being creative and inventive, even if it means they're being a little bit subversive or have viewpoints that run counter to those in people of positions of authority.

I'm sure this is part of it, but the theory[1] that schools in general are built around churning out uncreative, docile workers for the industrial economy has been around for a long, long time. Hell, "Another Brick in the Wall" was, what, 1978?

[1] Note that I'm specifying that this is a theory since I've never done enough research on both sides to feel certain that this is a particularly well-founded belief. What little I've heard is fairly plausible.

And women should dress modestly because you know... there are bad people out there who might perceive a short skirt as an invitation, amirite?

Welcome to 2015. I think Ahmed is just really sharp and articulate.

edit: I am not commenting on whether the father is righteous or malevolent; simply positing an idea which may explain why there is so much video, documentation, and attention on this event.

There's a bunch of anti-Muslim sentiment around. Standing up to that doesn't make someone a radical hardline Islamist.

This is a kid that enters robot competitions. https://twitter.com/sudanibae/status/643999495131262976/phot...

You don't think a 14-year-old or their parents would know better than to talk to the police without a lawyer, especially after what's happened so far? Or that they haven't been contacted by dozens of lawyers wanting to represent them?

What else should he have done? Just given up and not tried to make something cool?

Both of those were reported by the school itself. And the tweet came from a reporter at the CNN.

I'll grant that CNN isn't the best, and has had issues, but for the purposes of this convo, I don't know how that is relevant (it's not like anything you or I say is going to matter to anyone anyway).

1) He took a clock to school

2) He got arrested

3) He got suspended

That alone should be sufficient to cause anger. US isn't a crime free zone. Why aren't police spending time dealing with real actual crime?

From what I've seen, this looks like it was engineered for sensationalized media consumption. The photos, press conference, celebrity/politican PR releases etc. indicate to me that someone wanted this to blow up to make a point -- it didn't really happen organically in the way that the press is making you believe. If you are actually interested in how these stories end up making headlines, I would recommend reading "Trust Me, I'm Lying." It completely changed my perspective on our media and why it emphasizes the things that it does.

In the face of opposition, never change course! It's the ultimate downfall of bureaucracy, humans will burn down the world before admitting their mistakes.

I mean it is good he is learning how things work inside but I don't think he actually made anything and actually was fooling around with an openly exposed 110VAC transformer. He definitely needs some guidance and help with this stuff before he hurts himself or burns the house down.

This is like that woman at MIT who had a circuit board clipped onto her clothes and went to pick someone up at the airport and almost got murdered by security.

That said, I certainly fooled around with live power when I was his age. The house didn't burn down because we had a competent electrician install circuit breakers when we built it.

Either way, he is 14. Like the saying goes, 'everything is a remix'.

> I don't think he actually made anything

That's pointless judgement for something that a 14 year old himself claims in this video as 'really easy... something small': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mW4w0Y1OXE

At 14, all that matters is you are willing to learn, persevere, and have the courage to create something. (Actually, that's all that matters at any age of one's life.)

I did this a lot as a kid -- removed broken stuff, poked around to fix it, glued it into a different box. It's one of the reasons I went into electrical engineering.

It's a shame we have nothing like that today, electronics are just "magic" to people now that is made elsewhere.

When you're young is a great time to get shocked by 170v. Better than the rectified 340v from the caps in a power supply.

Source: 17-year old who faced similar media attention, it did inflate my ego a bit despite attempts to remain humble.