JeremyReeves

Hates...

The argument isn't really about "long copy".

What you need to do is display all the benefits your product offers, show how YOUR web apps are different, exploit your USP and tell the world about it... and debunk all objections.

That could take 500 words... it could take 2,000 words... or it could take 10,000 words.

It all depends. Long copy isn't long because people "want" it to be long. It's long because it takes that long to tell people how awesome the product is, as well as get in touch with them emotionally.

Jeremy

Yep, exactly.

It all depends on what gives you the highest conversions. It's really as simple as that.

EXACTLY :)

They're not being "replaced"... but video letters typically do help conversions.

And yes, great ideas about mixing it up.

That's the KEY to all of this. You don't know exactly what will work best - the answer lies in testing it out! :)

Jeremy - great point.

MOST people wouldn't throw it away if it was a good letter, and you would make a lot more sales.

The only people who would throw it away are those with very limited minds... who I wouldn't want as my customer anyway! ;)

Well it's great that you admit you might be wrong. 99% of people are so limited in their thinking that the thought of being wrong wouldn't even cross their minds :)

That being said, always understand that in marketing - it's not about YOU.

It's about the prospect.

Like I said... test something fancy against something longer (but written by a great copywriter... just because it's long doesn't mean it's good).

Let the test dictate who your market is :)

I hate to tell you, but it DOES make it true.

Because I personally deal with back and neck pain (fell out of a 25 ft. tree)... have personally used his products... and they personally gave ME relief.

I don't promote crappy products. I personally test EVERY single product I promote to make sure it's going to help people.

Here's an idea.

Work on getting a more positive outlook on life in general. It'll get you very far :)

1 thing I noticed is that the longer version is REALLY cramped and a lot harder to read than the short version.

I'd suggest making a lot more white space in the longer version for easier reading.

The shorter version also has a headline, the longer kind of does but it's not noticeable.

Keep running tests - you'll find a winner! :)

Thanks for the comment.

Yea it's hard not to generalize since it's only 1 article, ya know? I tried being as specific as possible without turning it into a 30 page article :)

And yes, you're absolutely right... and hit on something most people don't understand.

It all depends on the target market! ;)

No offense taken. I'm actually personally re-doing the order form on the 1 example so it looks more "clean".

The design doesn't matter though.

"Pretty" doesn't sell.

Trust me on that one.

What sells is understanding your customer, having a product which gives them exactly what they need at a fair price, and showing that customer how different that product is from other similar products.

Perfectly said Paras.

It's all about knowing your market, giving them something they're familiar with, and then BEING INTERESTING :)

Actually... it's the EXACT opposite of that.

Think about it.

Who is going to read a 10... 20... 30 page letter.

Someone one the lower half of the bell curve who can hardly string a sentence together, or someone who likes to read and is therefore (usually) more intelligent?

I personally use long copy to get clients who own MULTI-million dollar businesses.

Do you think they're on the lower half of the bell curve?

Nope :)

If I didn't use long copy to them... how could I show them how different I was? How could I display my USP? How could I talk about my guarantee? How could I get in touch with them emotionally so they pick up the phone and call?

Short answer - I wouldn't be able to.

You seem to read a lot of BAD salesletters written by lousy copywriters.

And THAT is where the difference is.

In my letters, my claims are backed up with proof. The testimonials are of people you can call on the phone. And I personally use the product before I even START writing.

Bad copy written by an unethical copywriter sucks.

Good copy written by a great copywriter will keep your eyes glued on the page as long as they want you reading :)

FANTASTIC comment! :)

Believe it or not, I DON'T only do long-form salesletters so I don't divide myself into a "long-form-only" camp.

Typically what I do is figure out what the client needs... assess the market/product,etc... and do 1 or the other to START.

However, if I'm not absolutely positive that whatever form I'm using will work - I always recommend that the client test a longer copy page versus a shorter copy page.

All in all... it's not "long form vs. short form".

The bottom line is... you put out all your selling points, and defuse all the objectives. At that point it can be either long or short.

And you end it right there without any "extra" words :)

That could be 300 words... or 10,000 words. Like you said - it depends on a TON of variables!

I don't think it's biased at all.

I do agree that long form tends to do better for information products.

However, it also does better in 90% of cases, as well. As I mentioned in the post... it does NOT do better in EVERY single case.

You're "essentially" comment is absolutely wrong... and TOTALLY biased after you just said my post was biased.

It depends on the market maturity, the branding of the company, and MANY other factors.

All in all - all I'm saying is this.

Long copy works in 80-90% of cases... TYPICALLY. It depends on a lot of factors, and the only way to really know... is to test it with a GOOD copywriter.

After all... long copy that sucks will always do worse than short copy which is brilliant :)

Jeremy