The problem is that "web dev" covers such a wide range of roles. "Uploading WordPress isn't web development" is a subjective statement, and a lot of people who can only do CSS and very minor code copy/paste/tweak get to call themselves "web devs." This OP sounds like someone who got in a rung or two above "uploads WordPress" and has convinced himself he needs to transform into a full-fledged ninja programmer in order to shed the image of "low level web dev." And he thinks the path to that goal is to pick something smart sounding, like kernel/crypto/driver hacker, and become it. Unfortunately, this is a bit like a kid who's taken one guitar lesson deciding his career plan is to become Eddie Van Halen.

But it doesn't matter. What he needs to understand is that there's absolutely no shame whatsoever in the "web dev" role precisely because it covers so many different levels of ability. He sees his own skills as lacking and therefore concludes that his title is a title of shame, whereas what he should be thinking about is the fact that a lot of real bad-ass coders share that title. Get better at what you do and what you're interested in, rather than chasing what you think sounds cool to others but you have no actual interest in.

OP, I know a guy who spent a couple of decades as a C/asm bad-ass and was recently forced to learn some HTML/CSS/JS in order to put a web front-end on a project. He's completely hooked and I don't think he's going back. There literally is no level of expertise implied by the term "web dev."

I feel sad for the OP because he found himself in a trap of "my title matters". It doesn't. The only question that mattered was "do I like what I do? Do I learn and can I learn more? And most importantly, is it feeding the family?". Getting yes to those three (always try to start with the last first) is all one ever needs. Do that, stand tall, be proud. And he had that but lost it by wondering what image he projected onto the world.

I'm angry that people throw these destructive opinions like " oh poo poo. X isn't real work" out in life because not everyone can be strong enough to not doubt themselves.

It's always a good thing to ask oneself if the thoughts one projects to the rest of the world can serve the purpose of raising the quality of someone's life.

If you read this OP, shake yourself. Write down on 3 papers,

I Must Be Happy

I Must Be Stable

I Must Keep Learning

And on your table paste a smaller note.

If you are always moving forward, then you have no reason to be unhappy with who you are today.

This may sound hokem mantraish "oh that's a nice sentiment" advice, but our minds are more malleable than we know. Just like you can feed it destructive thoughts and ruin the good in your life, you can do the opposite and it will work.

Good luck!

> lot of people who can only do CSS

I appreciate people "who can only do CSS".

CSS is underrated skill but experienced CSS developer has to know about:

- every browser quirk possible.

- various standard hacks to workaround these quirks

- preprocessors like Sass or Less

- tons of completely non-logical CSS rules (eg: `margin: auto` will center only horizontally but not vertically )

- methodologies like BEM, OCSS or SMACSS

- CSS frameworks like Bootstrap or Foundation

- CSS specifity, z-index stacking rules etc.

- responsive web development

- basic JavaScript also can be helpful

etc.

And he/she has to be good at communication with graphic/ux designers and be super patient (`2px left, please`, `change color for 3% brighter, please`, `slow down this transition and insert 2px border` etc.) And good eye for details also is needed.

So I don't think that someone "who can only do CSS" is worse than programmer. I think the opposite is true: programming is pretty damn easy comparing to sitting all day and trying to randomly tweak CSSes to make website look as it was designed by graphic/ux designers.

This is the reason I hate writing CSS. I like programming though. Because programming it's a looot easier.

Programming is logical. You tell computer what to do and computer does it. If it does not, you debug and eventually you win. CSS is not logical so IMHO it's harder.

> - every browser quirk possible.

Hah. Not even possible anymore. Used to be before mobile, but as far as I can tell with mobile there is nobody who knows where all the bodies are buried.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23142762/how-to-identify-...

I agree. I've been trying for 6 years to form a coherent mental model of CSS that will let me look at a mockup and predict how it would be built.

Frontend development has always been hell. Everyone who has done it professionally knows this.

Totally agree about the part where people who can do CSS and HTML and know that '.htaccess' is the file to configure stuff for your Wordpress website call themselves "web devs". And I think people from the engineering world look at those people ( since there is a lot of those people) and put a lot of hate on that title. I know this for a fact because I know a few people that are calling themselves just that "web devs". And when ever I get into talking about anything more advanced then CSS and PHP if statments they get lost. Things like concurrency, microservices, encryption etc. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong to be that person, everybody starts there, but you need to evolve.

"uploading WordPress isn't web development"

Sure it is. I know people who make a living at setting up Wordpress. They do it very well, and they work hard at it. They do design work that I cannot hope to match. And they do it all without writing any more code than some HTML and CSS.

I'm not going to insult them by saying that they are not developing web sites. They absolutely are.

Coders do not own the label of "web developer". Because that is all it is -- a label.

Call yourself whatever you want to call yourself. Let others do the same.

FWIW, when people ask what I do, I no longer get specific. I just say, "I write software."

You're pointing at 2 different things. Uploading Wordpress vs developing custom themes.

Uploading Wordpress, using standard themes and installing plugins isn't development, it's admin.

On the other hand, building custom themes or writing custom plugins is web development.

Developing a theme sometimes takes programming, and sometimes doesn't.

You are right, or course, in terms of semantic politeness. The OP is, however, referring to the difference between say a ruby developer versus someone who just writes html and css. If both are within the category of web developers, what are some names to distinguish the two?

Why do we need to distinguish the two?

Doctors are all doctors, but there is a difference between a family doctor and a neurosurgeon. Lawyers are all lawyers, but a patent attorney is not a criminal litigation specialist.

It is fine to have a generic term for a broad profession, then get more specific if and when it matters.

There would be. Because someone who only knows html and css has never really encountered an if-else statement in there entire lives. It's really hard for me to consider someone who doesn't know what an if-else statement to be a "programmer".

Perhaps, though, I can still refer to these people as "developers."

Front end vs. back end.

Where does JavaScript belong then? I believe it's the most important thing for a front end dev.

Parent didn't specify, but usually on the front-end. I would disagree that it's all that important, certainly not more important than being able to lay out a page and style it without it turning into a mess. I've cleaned up crappy CSS work before, the only real solution is to throw it out and start fresh.

At my company where I'm the back-end guy, our front-end guy does most of the Javascript, but he has to get my help whenever he has to do anything non-trivial. Only a few projects a year ever has him needing my assistance.

Most companies' Javascript needs should be similar. Every once in awhile there will be a marketing push wih non-trivial Javascript needs, most of the time they can get by with basic jQuery. Hide this element, show it when there's an event.

Unless you're working for a news agency, making Snowfall every month, I'd be surprised if the business actually did need more. Of course, if the front-end guy decides he has to learn React, well, I'd say, go ahead, knock yourself out. But don't kid yourself into believing it's really necessary.

That's different. What do you call someone who knows html and css but no javascript? "Designer" might be the industry term.

I worked in embedded programming, systems programming and, now, web dev. No. The "quality of people" is not generally the same or, more specifically, you're less likely to find PHP coders among system developers.

You must be using 'PHP coders' as an insult quite regularly to not notice what you've literally said. Of course systems programmers use system programming languages rather than web programming languages.

If you don't mind my asking, why aren't you still doing embedded programming? I'm a web developer looking to move to embedded programming and I'm always curious to hear about why people made the opposite decision. :)

Not being aware of the parent poster's motives, I'll offer the exponentially larger job market for web development as a reasonable justification. While the vast bulk of organizations need web development done, embedded/systems programming is a relatively small niche.

Is it a relatively small niche, though? Anything that has a microcontroller needs embedded software written for it, which is a large and growing market of smart devices and doo dads. It's not as large as the web, but it's hardly a small niche.

The reason I'm interested in it is it's the opposite of the web. It requires small, deliberate programming as opposed to the bloat fest web programming has become. It's also physical, whereas web programming is entirely non-physical. After spending so much time in these digital worlds I've been a part of, I want to build real, physical things.

Seasons change, and so did I. You need not wonder why.

Things just fell that way. I had absolutely no interest whatsoever in programming for the web or the web at all. Then I was involved in an event that had no money and needed a web site. Which led to another. Long story short, own my own web dev company for 11 years and 10 employees and making more money than ever before.

Great answer, thank you. :)