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Re:Dune, 50 years on by JoshTriplett on Saturday July 04, 2015 @03:04AM (#9829504)
I thoroughly enjoyed Dune. It had an interesting story, set in an even more interesting world.

However, it's also the kind of book that should never have had a sequel; other books in the series not only don't measure up, but actively undermine what made the original interesting. It's possible that other good stories could have been written in that universe, but they weren't. I highly recommend reading only the original.

Re:Dune, 50 years on by iwwr on Saturday July 04, 2015 @04:37AM (#9829649)
I would disagree. The sequels, especially 5-6 open up the wider universe and explore a variety of human cultures and social interaction. It's a fantasy-scify with deep and complex characters and complex interactions. Normally you'd start to see a scifi universe break apart after a few books, but Dune's could stand, it's 'realistic' in a sense.

If you mean the sequels, prequels, interquels made by Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson, then those are of a lower quality. They had the good fortune to inherit an IP and just ran with it. They may not be so bad as far as the genre goes (except for Sandworms), but they create a somewhat wider context. It's not for everyone, while I feel the originals of Frank Herbert may be, at least to people with a taste for sci-fi.

Re:Dune, 50 years on by nl on Saturday July 04, 2015 @07:51AM (#9829912)
The sequels aren't that well written.

The prequels shouldn't have been written.

Re:Dune, 50 years on by _jeans on Saturday July 04, 2015 @01:40PM (#9830875)
I would never consider the prequels to be canon, as they were not written by Frank Herbert himself.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by Tycho on Saturday July 04, 2015 @08:31AM (#9829965)
I really enjoyed the sequels, personally. I think the 2nd and 3rd have some low points in them with the very unappealing Alia character taking up a lot of the text. But the 4th book (God Emperor of Dune) really reframed the series as an aeon spanning meditation on civilisation and governance and institutions, while building around the fascinating concept of prescience. Then the 5th book is a real thriller with shades of the original. It also has a couple of great twists.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by spdionis on Saturday July 04, 2015 @07:11PM (#9831891)
Agreed. The second and third books are pretty boring but the 4th is the best of the series.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by veli_joza on Saturday July 04, 2015 @03:45AM (#9829571)
The first book is black-and-white affair, the rise of an underdog hero. It takes few more sequels to paint a much bigger picture warning about dangers of religion fundamentalism and about placing burden of leadership on single person. In the end I also like the first book the best, but sequels are also worthwhile to read.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by proofofconcept on Saturday July 04, 2015 @03:30AM (#9829549)
Which (if any) of the Dune sequels are "good" is one of those Kirk vs. Pickard or Joel vs. Mike caliber sci-fi debates that gets unreasonably heated since people get very attached to their opinions on creative works that resonate with them on a personal level. (For the record, I don't really like the first two sequels but I really really love the 3rd-5th sequels; I realize it's a big ask of new readers to get that far just on my say-so though.)
Re:Dune, 50 years on by JoshTriplett on Saturday July 04, 2015 @03:43AM (#9829567)
> For the record, I don't really like the first two sequels but I really really love the 3rd-5th sequels

I'll admit to not having gotten that far; two bad sequels was enough for me to give up.

Re:Dune, 50 years on by proofofconcept on Saturday July 04, 2015 @09:24AM (#9830069)
If you've already sloged through Dune Messiah and Children of Dune then you should consider giving God Emperor of Dune a chance because it's very different from the first two sequels. The setting has dramatically changed, so there is a lot of new worldbuilding; the overall narrative shifts to focus on a new central character; there is a return to the more philosophical content of the original as opposed to the strictly expository content of the first two sequels; and the writing itself is (in my opinion) much more lovingly crafted than the prose in the first two sequels which seemed to me as a reader as if it was rushed like he just wanted to spit it out and be done with that part of the narrative. I know I'm really just evangelizing on the basis of my personal reaction to the books but again, if you've alrady read the first two sequels, pop into a Barnes and Noble or something and give the first few chapters of God Emperor a chance.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by tinco on Saturday July 04, 2015 @11:33AM (#9830434)
If I would attempt a re-reading of Dune, would it be advisable to skip those two sequals? It's been over 10 years since I read Dune and among the few things I remember is that I found it a painfully slow read full of details I wasn't interested in and words I couldn't bother to learn.

My English is a bit better now, and I like to think I've become a bit more patient ;) So perhaps I could attempt it again and see if I appreciate it more.

Re:Dune, 50 years on by gommm on Saturday July 04, 2015 @12:12PM (#9830553)
I think you can just skip the first two sequels... The emperor god of dune still reads fine without remembering those two sequels perfectly.

Incidentally I agree, while the first two sequels are interesting they are a bit of a slow read and they don't feel as well written as the later books. Frank Herbert really starts to get into his stride with the Emperor God of Dune.

The books by Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson are better avoided like all works by Kevin J Anderson (who is IMO a very mediocre writer)

Re:Dune, 50 years on by JoshTriplett on Saturday July 04, 2015 @03:31PM (#9831325)
> The books by Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson are better avoided like all works by Kevin J Anderson (who is IMO a very mediocre writer)

I quite enjoyed the Jedi Academy trilogy, both for its own sake and for its detail on several bits of the universe.

Re:Dune, 50 years on by spdionis on Saturday July 04, 2015 @07:20PM (#9831911)
I enjoyed the last 2 books of the series, although not nearly as much as the originals. It was nice to have an ending to the story. I think they're ok for Dune fans.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by spdionis on Saturday July 04, 2015 @07:18PM (#9831904)
Because reasons, I actually started reading the series from the 4th book to the 6th and only years later I acquired the first 3 pieces of the story. I enjoyed the 4-6 books a lot without reading the other books before because they actually make sense standalone. So basically yes, you can start reading from the 4th without a problem.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by spdionis on Saturday July 04, 2015 @07:13PM (#9831896)
You missed the best part then.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by snowwrestler on Saturday July 04, 2015 @12:30PM (#9830638)
The sequels don't undermine the original story, they expand on it.

A lot of people think Dune is a straightforward hero story, with Paul Atreides the "good" hero, but actually (edit: I should say, according to Herbert and taking into account the later novels) it is the story of the terrible damage a "hero" can cause to a culture and society.

"No more terrible disaster could befall your people than for them to fall into the hands of a Hero." - Frank Herbert

This is similar to Cryptonomicom, which people think is the story of Avi and Randy's success, but is really the story of their misguided quest which is doomed to fail.

Re:Dune, 50 years on by JoshTriplett on Saturday July 04, 2015 @03:33PM (#9831331)
What an author intends and what readers take from it are two different things. Definitely an interesting quote, though; I like that.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by spdionis on Saturday July 04, 2015 @07:23PM (#9831915)
Agreed. My interpretation is that Paul actually failed completely as a hero.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by Swannie on Sunday July 05, 2015 @09:31PM (#9836098)
I read the books 15 years ago (IIRC, the first 4 or 5), and need to revisit.

But my enduring memory was of a flawed young man becoming overly enamoured with his new messianic role, and making some choices that were questionable.

Re:Dune, 50 years on by spdionis on Monday July 06, 2015 @03:04AM (#9837292)
It's not really like that. In the end the choices he made supposedly happened because he saw the future that this was the best way for humanity to survive.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by BjoernKW on Saturday July 04, 2015 @03:40AM (#9829563)
I agree. I found the sequels both not as compelling and harder to read than the original (the notable exception being Dune Messiah, which was still quite interesting and closer to the original): Plans within ploys within ruses within plans for pages on end, contemplations of a literal Godking in an even more distant future made the later storyline very difficult to follow at times.

However, while the first novel was the most digestible and most intriguing plot-wise, it is the sequels that explore the philosophical, political and social subjects of the original much more deeply. In a way the sequels are sometimes more like (huge) essays on various philosophical topics that merely use the original story as a backdrop.

Re:Dune, 50 years on by jwdunne on Saturday July 04, 2015 @03:16AM (#9829520)
I also think it undermines the ending, which is probably one of the best endings I've ever read, which ties everything together rapidly so you have to re-read the past few paragraphs again. I remember thinking "woah".

The start of the book is maybe a bit slow but it does pick up pace rapidly after a point. The best advice I got was to just push on, I'll understand why later. I don't regret it.

Re:Dune, 50 years on by cousin_it on Saturday July 04, 2015 @07:34AM (#9829884)
I think Dune was successful because it was a straightforward hero story, whose plot meshed together many interesting sub-themes like politics, religion, ecology, colonialism, drugs, eugenics, AI etc. The sequels failed because they abandoned the simple entertainment that a hero story could provide, and instead put the sub-themes front and center.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by spdionis on Saturday July 04, 2015 @07:09PM (#9831888)
The Dune series is absolutely my favourite series ever and in my opinion the original is only a prelude to the real story.

It's depth barely scratches what comes next, especially in the 4-5-6 books. Even though there are inconsistencies the last 3 books are much much better in my opinion, especially the fourth.

The first book is just an (almost boring) introduction.

Re:Dune, 50 years on by brandonmenc on Saturday July 04, 2015 @10:34AM (#9830250)
> it's also the kind of book that should never have had a sequel

The first two books are meant to be read as one. I recommend, at minimum, Dune and Dune Messiah.

Re:Dune, 50 years on by MarcScott on Saturday July 04, 2015 @11:09AM (#9830367)
I agree. A little like the Ender's Game series. The first two are great, and the rest seem a little like nothing more than a revenue source.

Obligatory XKCD link - https://xkcd.com/304/

Re:Dune, 50 years on by jeffwass on Saturday July 04, 2015 @11:17AM (#9830391)
Am I the only one who didn't like Speaker for the Dead? To me it felt like a big let down after Ender's Game.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by grogenaut on Saturday July 04, 2015 @01:05PM (#9830761)
You'll like the "Shadow" books then.

Enders game is a space battle thriller with a great twist.

Speaker is all about what do you consider "human" and what do you consider "alien". It was very mind expanding when I was 14.

Re:Dune, 50 years on by reagency on Saturday July 04, 2015 @01:34PM (#9830851)
The alien-vs-human issue was covered in the beginning setup and then the end of ender's game, when ender realized what he had done. Do you need a whole other book to drive the point home?
Re:Dune, 50 years on by snowwrestler on Saturday July 04, 2015 @12:52PM (#9830719)
I think that is the point--to show that situations that seem like inspiring hero stories from one perspective, are actually more complicated from a broader view.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by eli_gottlieb on Saturday July 04, 2015 @05:41PM (#9831700)
Read Dune and Dune Messiah together, and then skip the rest and read God Emperor of Dune. That more-or-less provides what you need.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by JoshTriplett on Saturday July 04, 2015 @03:38PM (#9831345)
I found Dune Messiah to be a slog through piles of brooding and pontification; Children of Dune was at least an improvement over that.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by RexRollman on Saturday July 04, 2015 @08:11AM (#9829932)
Agreed. I have read all six but only still own the first one.
Re:Dune, 50 years on by uptownJimmy on Saturday July 04, 2015 @09:02AM (#9830020)
I agree wholeheartedly.