Satiety is more than nothing yet less than everything. Are you equating satiety to feeling satisfied (as in happy)? Because satiety doesn't mean that. It means feeling full. Most obese people I know rarely ever feel satiety. Most feel hungry all the time (because they don't have satiety). When most people feel full and continue eating food which leads to feeling engorged, they stop eating because they soon feel miserable. Sugars and carbs usually don't lead to satiety, fats tend to.

craving != hunger

Addiction to carbs has the same mechanism as addiction to cocaine

I agree craving != hunger.

"The reason overweight individuals have a tough time is that they are VERY satieted by carb foods"

Satiety has little to with cravings. It has to do with hunger.

Regardless, I guess we are both in the "wrong" to assume whether particular individuals are truly satieted by carb foods or not. And I think we can both agree that it's best to avoid large amounts of simple carbs.

it is best to avoid all simple carbs or may be even carbs at all. The reason people eat carbs is to hack the brain and get high on dopamines. I salivate when I think about a sandwich or a cookie or even a banana. I could eat them any time of day before. How can a fatso be hungry couple of hours after a meal? No way. The craving kicks in and he goes to a fridge and searches for a snack, and it won't be a broccoli

I would suggest you investigate the prospect that the fundamental human condition involves "dopamine addiction", as dopamine activity is literally the thing our brain does to trigger pleasure in our mind - it is the primary neurochemical mechanism of that feeling. Dopamine-moderated pleasure, or some variant of it, is a basic drive (perhaps synonymous with 'basic drive', with motivation itself) that we likely share with the entirety of the animal kingdom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reward_system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine#Animals

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...

I would also point out that fat people very rarely eat much above their natural metabolic burn rate. Instead, people who are presently gaining weight are doing so. Someone who eats an extra 500 calories per day over what their body demands (call it one, one and a half grilled cheese or PB&J sandwiches) gains 1 pound per week, and has gained 52 pounds after 1 year. A fat person who has a stable weight is not eating excess food. The reason you see them eating more food than you, is that when we gain weight, our body demands more energy to feed that body mass; Losing a pound at 130lbs weight requires a similar amount of discomfort & deprivation as losing a pound at 330lbs weight. For them to be feeding a body two and a half times as large on a similar diet as a stable-weight 130lbs person, would represent a very rapid, very uncomfortable weight loss, a starvation diet.

Usually, people gaining weight put on pounds slowly; Gaining 26 lbs per year is a 250 calories per day excess. They're only eating 10 or 15% more than they should be to maintain their weight. This is not the behavior of an out-of-control addict chasing the dragon, but a largely functional feedback loop responding to a slight artificial bias in favor of extra food, or less exercise, than it's naturally tuned for (or at least, than it was subjected to previous to the obesity epidemic).

OMG, it's NOT about calories, if you eat white sugar it goes straight to fat and if you eat almonds, it is digested gradually. Fat people are addicted to sweets, cookies, rice, bread. They don't eat green veggie with olive oil. Just see WHAT they eat ffs. Just go in the cafe and look in their plates. They ALL eat a ton of noodles, rice (Asia), bread, sweet sauces and sweet "juices" and drinks. Come on, time to wake the fuck up

Its absolutely about calories. Habits related to particular foods, including carbs, may be particularly common contributors to thee calorie excess (either by contributing to more calories, or by contributing to food sources which produce feelings which discourage exercise, or both) but ultimately fat gain is produced by a calorie surplus, and maintaining lots of fat.

That's a pseudo science invented by food companies to make people eat more processed food and sugar.

If you sugar spikes from carbs, insulin stores it into fat.

> That's a pseudo science invented by food companies to make people eat more processed food and sugar.

No, that you need a calorie surplus to increase stored energy, whether in the form of fat or otherwise, isn't pseudo-science (the alternative is pseudo-science of the same sort as perpetual motion machines.)

And people trying to avoid a calorie surplus are not going to eat more sugar ("processed foods" perhaps -- I mean, lots of convenient high-protein, low-sugar, shelf-stable convenient foods are fairly highly processed from their raw forms. OTOH, I don't see a real problem with them, either. All "processed foods" are not created equal.)

> If you sugar spikes from carbs, insulin stores it into fat.

Right. But if you aren't maintaining a calorie surplus, you aren't going to gain stored energy whether in the form of fat or otherwise, because you're going to be using stored energy at least as fast as you are storing it.

OTOH, excess carb intake is often associated with a feeling of lethargy which discourages activity, so in addition to the calories coming in from that activity, that eating pattern can reduce calories going out. And lots of people have metabolic issues related to carbs which make excess carb intake a health problem for other reasons, so its definitely true that there are good reasons to be aware of carb intake for most people, and for people with particular health conditions related to carbs that's even more true.

But its not true that either weight or fat gain is unrelated to calorie balance.

calories is a pseudo science, you should eat more fat and less carbs

http://www.webmd.com/diet/20120626/all-calories-not-created-...

"It's not about calories, fat people eat a lot of [list of foods high in calories], not [food low in calories]"

That's what you just said. You're wrong, btw. Plent. Of morbidly obese and super obese people eat lots of fat.

I observed obese people - they all eat simple carbs. Why? They are addicted to dopamine, they tremble and get depressed if they don't eat sugar and carbs. They overeat, that's the reason they are obese.

For a non-obese person calories also don't matter because if you eat equal amount of calories using sugar, almonds or olive oil, the effect will be completely different

> I observed obese people - they all eat simple carbs.

I've observed obese people. And, no, they don't all eat simple carbs.

> Why? They are addicted to dopamine,

You can't be "addicted to dopamine". Dopamine plays a role (or, more accurately, different roles) in various addictions, but isn't the thing to which you are addicted.

> they tremble and get depressed if they don't eat sugar and carbs.

That sounds a lot like hypoglycemia (possibly resulting from chronic hyperinsulinemia), which is a fairly well-established thing, unlike folk-psychology "carbohydrate addiction".

> They overeat, that's the reason they are obese.

This is the one sane thing you say: yes, weight gain results from "overeating", that is, a calorie surplus.

> For a non-obese person calories also don't matter

"also"? As you correctly note previously overeating -- eating an excess of calories -- is where weight gain comes from. That's true whether the person is or is not obese at the time.

Calories absolutely matter. Both for obese people and non-obese people.

>unlike folk-psychology "carbohydrate addiction".

you should start with basics then. If you think there is no sugar and simple carbs addiction, wow

http://www.webmd.com/diet/ss/slideshow-sugar-addiction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_addiction

>Calories absolutely matter

OKOK I agree that calories make you fat of course, but if you are not addicted to cookies, sugar and other carbs you won't over consume calories. Why would you overeat broccoli with olive oil? So in this case, you can eat oil and lard.

Certainly true, carbs are addicting. But perhaps the satieting effect of fats can help individuals curb their hunger.

http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/9683329 http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v32/n11/abs/ijo2008166a.ht...

there is no hunger believe me, there is craving. If you've been on cocaine you will know what i am talking about. Fats are really not important here, staying away from all simple carbs is the key to battle addiction. But fats are good anyway. Also some research shows that heart attacks are actually from carbs, not fats. check out Cereal Killers Movie

Thanks for the movie recommendation. I will check it out. Fed Up was also good.

Is the dopamine produced in response to carb consumption or in response to satiety?

I'd imagine a steak lover who just finished a porterhouse with bernaise is also high on dopamine.

for some reason with sugar and carbs you hack the brain