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Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by Zigurd on Thursday May 07, 2015 @08:58AM (#9504679)
The people who could not find their way to some thoughtfulness and restraint and stop an insanely inappropriate and disproportionate legal travesty should lose their jobs and be driven out of their professions.
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by Lawtonfogle on Thursday May 07, 2015 @10:11AM (#9505136)
>an insanely inappropriate and disproportionate legal travesty

That is just about every case ever. Even the really bad people, the ones you and I and everyone else reading this agree deserve to be locked behind bars, have their charges trumped up far beyond what they are actually guilty of in an attempt to coerce them to take a plea bargain for lesser charges. To put another way, they are successfully punishing most people for insisting on their right to a fair trial.

Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by ohitsdom on Thursday May 07, 2015 @10:22AM (#9505212)
Every case ever has had inappropriate and disproportionate trial/punishment? That's a very outlandish statement. Are you referring to a specific type of crime? A good argument can be made that this is true for many marijuana cases. But you seem to be talking about all crimes...
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by zimpenfish on Thursday May 07, 2015 @11:24AM (#9505720)
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/can-the-...

"I love how surprised people are by the fact that a prosecutor may have overcharged. This is something prosecutors do all the time, as a strategic choice, for various reasons"

(edited to put the 's' back on 'reasons')

Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by ohitsdom on Thursday May 07, 2015 @11:27AM (#9505744)
Good info, thanks.
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by Lawtonfogle on Thursday May 07, 2015 @10:58AM (#9505503)
You missed my 'just about'. And while it might be a little overstated (I haven't seen anyone do a massive sampling to compare what the charges were compared to what they should've been, which is probably a bit subjective), I would consider it in the majority of cases based on the anecdotes I've seen. Anecdotes are definitely imperfect and worse than peer reviewed science, but lacking the latter, the former is better than nothing.
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by ohitsdom on Thursday May 07, 2015 @11:30AM (#9505773)
"Just about" doesn't leave much room for variation. But I get your point, and the link zimpenfish posted actually supports your opinion fairly well. My initial knee-jerk reaction against your original comment seems to have been off base. Which is sad for the state of our justice system...
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by zz1 on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:28AM (#9504851)
We should resume who did what:

* Massachusetts US Attorney Carmen Ortiz pushed for the prosecution

* MIT (can we be more specific?) did nothing to stop the prosecution (to say the least)

Please, continue...

Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by afarrell on Thursday May 07, 2015 @10:45AM (#9505389)
Those curious about MIT's role should 1) Read Prof Hal Abelson's report http://swartz-report.mit.edu/ 2) Remember that a prosecutor does not serve the person who reported a crime or prompted an investigation. A prosecutor serves The State http://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=1423
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by yarrel on Thursday May 07, 2015 @12:13PM (#9506125)
MIT's neutrality really comes through as a badge of shame there.
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by Zigurd on Thursday May 07, 2015 @02:39PM (#9507265)
That report is a shameful whitewash
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by tptacek on Thursday May 07, 2015 @07:22PM (#9509076)
You're accusing Hal Abelson of deliberately deceiving the public? Or is there a better way to interpret what you wrote?
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by Zigurd on Thursday May 07, 2015 @07:33PM (#9509112)
If you look at my response below, the report does not have to be an outright lie to be a whitewash. It can deceive by omission, for example. The headline of CNN's coverage of the report was "We did not target Aaron." That's true-ish. There's a lot of room between there and the truth, which is more like "We failed to stand up to stop a bad investigation and prosecution, and now we're dodging responsibility."

Would you place all the responsibility for the report on Abelson? Or do you think Rafael Reif is responsible for setting the parameters of the report to be produced?

Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by tptacek on Thursday May 07, 2015 @07:54PM (#9509192)
That's why I used the word "deceive", as you did right here as well, and so I guess my response is to repeat the question I asked above.

Do you really believe Hal Abelson was deliberately or negligently --- ie, culpably --- deceptive?

later: added clarifying word "really"

Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by Zigurd on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:25PM (#9509505)
"Deceptive" is your word. I said "whitewash."

A whitewash is dissembling and deflecting and, ultimately, deceptive. Abelson, and the other authors of the report should have refused to write it.

But Reif is mostly to blame. He asked for the report, and used it to deflect blame.

Now here is where YOU are being deceptive. You are digging for "Hal Abelson is culpably deceptive." You would even prefer something stronger. That's a weak rhetorical ploy. Write it yourself if you want to read it.

Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by tptacek on Friday May 08, 2015 @12:53AM (#9510016)
"Deceptive is your word. I said 'whitewash'. A whitewash is [...] ultimately deceptive."

I don't feel like I'm so much trying to use debate tactics against you as to observe how uncomfortable even you seem to be with the idea that Hal Abelson was deliberately deceptive.

Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by Zigurd on Friday May 08, 2015 @09:21AM (#9511506)
So you are completely comfortable defending the Abelson report, and find it completely honest. That's dandy.

Are you still comfortable with your comments here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4529484

Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by tptacek on Friday May 08, 2015 @10:57AM (#9512033)
Yes. And, yes. Why? What does that have to do with Abelson's report?
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by afarrell on Thursday May 07, 2015 @02:48PM (#9507343)
Do you have sources to contradict it?
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by Zigurd on Thursday May 07, 2015 @06:32PM (#9508826)
Contradict what? The report amounts to "It wasn't our fault because, except for the people we won't name, and won't say what they told law enforcement, nobody here told Aaron to kill himself."

That doesn't need to be contradicted to call it weak sauce and whitewash.

Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by voteforchange on Thursday May 07, 2015 @10:30AM (#9505271)
Michael Pickett of the secret service who aided MIT's IT staff and security in strong arming Aaron and escalating the case and the relevant charges. His presence and influence was the main factor in pumping up the charges and gathering evidence to support them when this could and should have been a matter between the school and its student.
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by tveita on Thursday May 07, 2015 @10:57AM (#9505499)
Aaron Swartz was not a MIT student. From the MIT report:

"Aaron Swartz was neither a member of the MIT staff, nor an enrolled student nor alumnus, nor a member of the faculty. He was a regular visitor to the MIT campus and interacted with MIT people and groups both on campus and off."

Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by voteforchange on Thursday May 07, 2015 @11:51AM (#9505920)
I didn't realize that. He was accessing student services allocated to him under his enrollment with the university. I won't try to litigate the case here. I see why it might be complicated by that fact.

I want to know who called in the secret service/electronic crimes division here? MIT (who's only concern was trespass) or JSTOR who might be able to enforce contract terms on MIT or a EULA on Aaron at best?

Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by tedunangst on Thursday May 07, 2015 @12:03PM (#9506040)
Another (rhetorical) question: did they call the secret service before or after they identified who and what was happening?
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by voteforchange on Thursday May 07, 2015 @01:30PM (#9506767)
I don't know about you, but I always call the FBI when I leave my facebook open at the public library: http://www.avclub.com/article/updated-fbi-arrests-man-suspec...
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by tzs on Thursday May 07, 2015 @04:20PM (#9507983)
What was happening at MIT was hardly equivalent to someone leaving their Facebook page open at the library.

They had some unknown person massively exceeding the limits of what they intended to offer to the public. When they used blocking methods that would stop most people, he evaded them. When they continued trying to stop him, he continued evading.

Then he entered an equipment room off limits to the public, wired equipment into the network, and hid it.

He repeatedly trespassed to check his equipment and was grabbing so much data that to stop him JSTOR cut all of MIT off from JSTOR access for a couple days while they tried to figure out what to do next. So at that point he has disrupted research at MIT and possibly put them in violation of their contract with JSTOR.

MIT is a major research center, and that research includes quite a bit of research funded by and for the Department of Defense and other government agencies. Poking that kind of thing tends to get agencies like the Secret Service called in.

Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by tptacek on Thursday May 07, 2015 @07:14PM (#9509041)
The Secret Service is routinely called in for complicated computer crime cases; they are historically the federal government's computer crimes expertise center.

The fact that the case was prosecuted federally is notable, but the USSS's involvement isn't.

Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by voteforchange on Thursday May 07, 2015 @07:34PM (#9509116)
What's the alternative?
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by Zigurd on Thursday May 07, 2015 @06:39PM (#9508849)
The supposed victim, JSTOR, dropped their civil case. If it had affected them materially, they would have been wrong to do so.
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by voteforchange on Thursday May 07, 2015 @08:09PM (#9509256)
Well FUCK jstor. I want a payday.
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by voteforchange on Thursday May 07, 2015 @05:27PM (#9508418)
That's a debate worth having.

My opening salvo: The point at which individuals and corporations use of cryptography can be denigrated as, "Making it hard to detect terrorist activity" is the exact point at which it becomes impossible for the individual or the corporation to meaningfully engage with law enforcement. The escalation of the rhetoric surrounding e-crimes blurs and negates our ability not only to judge appropriate penalties, general severity, but also when, how, and to whom to report these crimes.

Its very hard to even tell when and if a crime has been committed.

In such a chaotic environment it is inevitable that money and connections and influence supplant the law.

Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by tedunangst on Thursday May 07, 2015 @05:47PM (#9508542)
> Its very hard to even tell when and if a crime has been committed.

So what's your suggestion? Ignore the intrusion until it goes away?

Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by voteforchange on Thursday May 07, 2015 @06:17PM (#9508736)
If I had the ear of middle management in America's security service I'd suggest a different approach to evangelizing at a grassroots level. Let's stop pretending startups can ignore the law and make knowledge of the law a distinguishing mark in the pedigree of a startup hacker.
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by tedunangst on Thursday May 07, 2015 @09:09PM (#9509464)
Are you a Markov bot?
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by voteforchange on Thursday May 07, 2015 @06:40PM (#9508859)
most lawyers I know, know how to party rock.
Re:The internet’s own boy: the story of Aaron Swartz [video] by tedunangst on Thursday May 07, 2015 @03:36PM (#9507693)
Totally relevant.