I always tinkered with electronics as a kid, and these protections against tampering were easily defeated by melting the cap of a bic pen with a lighter. Build your tools :)

I find it sort of amusing that the idea of a "security torx" is that people won't be able to insert a flat or regular torx. Every bit set I've seen the last 10 years have had security torx included, so beating the "security" just require a trip to the hardware store.

I tried that -- went to Lowes I believe, and asked a hardware guy there if they carried the bits. He then proceeded to treat me as if I was some sort of criminal, informing me that those security screws are there for a reason. I'm sorry, but it is not against any criminal code that I know of to want to fix your own oscillating fan. Of course I see that they have it on their web site, so I should have just brought up that page on my cell phone (or part number) and be done with it.

The people working at those stores are really just a random smattering of warm bodies to fill a position. It appears you ran into the type of person who wants to play macho man from a limited knowledge set - don't take it personally. Go back the next day and a different person might [know exactly where the bits are, pass you off to someone else in the store, not know what a screwdriver is, or be curious about what you're fixing and recommend a different place you can actually obtain them]. Companies wanted replaceable minimum wage workers and that's what they got.

We must buy different bit sets. I go through a lot of dewalt bit sets in all shapes and sizes of plastic yellow boxes and I have never seen a security torx bit included. What bit sets do you purchase?

I have a handy little computer repair set made by Tekton[1]. All its Torx bits are security ones. (note they call them "Star" and "Tamper Star" for trademark reasons I suppose)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009MKGRQA

Pretty much just the cheapest set which they happen to have in the local discount hardware store. I have two sets, one from Bahco and a no-name one.

It is also amusing the big money spent by the ones licensing the "security torx" and guessing how they got convinced.

Last time I encountered these, I just popped off the pins with a small flathead and converted the "security" torx into a regular torx.

There isn't much security there when the screws are made of cheap metal.

Hah, I always liked the rubber-band-over-the-screw trick, had a couple inky experiences with bics.

The one way screws were pretty easy to beat with a bit of superglue!

> had a couple inky experiences with bics.

Well, there's your problem right there. You melt the cap clip, not the pen, silly! The offset cap gives you some nice leverage.

I understand why Apple and others put exotic fasteners on their products, and why they rotate their shields periodically. The business case is simple: a small investment in screwdrivers for your repair shops and factories results in larger profits after market.

But as a consumer, I can't accept the loud and clear, customer hostile, F-U message.

I also find their position shortsighted in terms of customer good will. How many are turned off and go elsewhere?

Given their recent sales numbers, not very many.

I think that innovators and early adopters care. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_adoption_lifecycle

I know a lot of early adopters and I've never seen one interested in disassembling/upgrading their gadgets. They just go out and buy the next model up when it's available.

For anyone who has assembled IKEA furniture, it's worth noting that their cross-type screw drives are almost exclusively pozidriv, not Phillips. They are very similar, but you get a noticeably better fit if you use the right driver.

Even with Phillips head I see many computer people using a PH1 driver in a PH2 screw and unwittingly damaging one or the other. These sizes are not supposed to be interchangeable!

I really hate the Philips head. I guess it's good when you're building cars with cheap tools and uneducated workers, but for everything it gets used for today, a screw head that deliberately cams out and that willingly accepts incorrect driver sizes but gets damaged from it is just useless.

I'm seriously considering adding Henry F. Philips to my list of people to go back in time to assassinate if I ever get ahold of a time machine.

Phillips heads are not really for high-torque applications. They stem from an era where many drivers didn't have a rapid stop, and the automated centering was very helpful.

Unfortunately, this persisted in the construction industry because of drywall. Phillips heads in drywall will readily "cam out" when you hit a high enough torque, which can help prevent over tightening or stripping. (of course, if you keep trying to tighten the screws they will almost always strip).

The bits were universal, but they were never designed to be a high torque fastener, and they are completely inappropriate for most woodscrews over 2 inches long (deck screws, etc.)

Fortunately, even home depot and lowes are now beginning to carry Torx drive screws, which work much better. If you are buying deck screws for any project, always try to get T25 rather than T20 size screws. They are sufficiently resilient that each screw could be reused many times, while phillips/square drive screws will start to loosen/strip after 1 use.

TIL that all the frustration I've felt with philips screws over the years is the result of a design decision.

Totally agree, Philips is horrible to use with a screw gun. I'm just happy that star drive is so common now, I always use those if I can.

> using a PH1 driver in a PH2 screw

I see that a lot. I think people are confused by the size of the bit; the one that fits is kind of large compared to the size of the screw.

As a side note... There's a lot of stuff out there that looks like Phillips but is actually JIS B 1012 ("crosshead.") Compared to Phillips heads, JIS heads are a little deeper, the cross is a little more square, and sometimes there's a dot in one corner of the cross. They're actually quite reliable and resistant to cam-out, provided you use the right tools.

The list lacks the coffee bean head screw used in coffee makers. At least there is another security screw type that is somewhat compatible... http://maultech.com/chrislott/blog/pix/spanner-screw-bit-sma...

(from http://maultech.com/chrislott/blog/20100627_nespresso.html )

Add it to the page then.

It probably belongs on the spanner/wrench page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrench

Eh, I don't think so. The bit he used is designed to be a wrench bit, it's not designed for the oval screw used by the nspresso, it just works coincidentally.

Ah...you're right, I missed the "somewhat compatible" part of the sentence.

The only other problem would be if it's "notable" enough :)

I look at this and cannot help to compare the need for so many types of screwdrivers with the need for so many javascript libraries[0] or xml parsers[1] or anything not invented here, like a csv parser [2]

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_JavaScript_libraries [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:XML_parsers [2] http://tburette.github.io/blog/2014/05/25/so-you-want-to-wri...

I think when you said JavaScript you meant programing language

C: https://notabug.org/koz.ross/awesome-c

Java: http://www.fromdev.com/2014/10/most-widely-used-java-librari...

Erlang: https://github.com/drobakowski/awesome-erlang

Elixer: https://github.com/h4cc/awesome-elixir

Python: https://github.com/vinta/awesome-python

Heck here is a list of the lists: https://github.com/sindresorhus/awesome#programming-language...

This isn't directly my area of interest but the physics sure are interesting. I wonder if the space of screw drive shapes can be generated by a computer and evaulated with a fitness function that calculates the weight, profile, strength, contact area, for every given application.

Torx is a pretty optimized drive [1].

Otherwise, yeah, it would likely be possible. Many vendors have been proposing semi-automatic structural optimization via finite element methods for a while now (for example, [2]). I'd assume it'd be pretty long running though, as its a non-linear contact problem likely needing pretty tight tolerances/meshing.

In the real world though, you're much more likely to want something standard.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx

[2] http://www.altairhyperworks.com/HWTemp3Product.aspx?product_...

This is something that could easily be accomplished with finite element modelling of the stresses on the solids involved. There are a lot of variables though, including the range of torques, the manufacturing tolerances on your screw heads and bits, the hardness of the alloys used, not to mention practical choices like being able to use the same driver for multiple types of screw head.

I appreciate the elegance of the Robertson screw.

I like that once you insert the tip into the head of the screw, the screw will stay snug on the driver until you pull it out. You can load a screw on and then with the screwdriver place it anywhere you want it with only one hand!

Of course, this list needs to be twice as long, to include all the left-handed versions.

This was a list of drives, not screws. By my count, 33 out of 37 drivers shown are symmetric with regard to clockwise vs counterclockwise driving. (Tri-wing, Torq-set, One-way, and Mortorq are the only ones I see that are non-symmetric. And three of these are a standard that is really only built one way.

So it seems there is one type missing - custom screwdriver/bolt parings such as http://www.pitlock.de/.

I have these and my bike wheels have not been stolen yet!

Seems like that is covered by the 'proprietary head' category: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Proprietar...

To replace a broken wire, I once had to file a notch in a cheap plain screwdriver blade - the screw had a protruding center pin. It protected a clothes steam iron ...

OP probably didn't intend to leave the anchor on this link.

Indeed. Unfortunately, HN doesn't allow users to edit links once they are submitted. :-(