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Re:Facebook Said to Block Pages Critical of Muhammad to Avoi... by bsaul on Tuesday January 27, 2015 @02:55AM (#8951947)
From google people saying " why do you want anonymity if you've got nothing to hide" to this, is really the confirmation that technologist are poorly equiped when it's about dealing with political or social issues.

What facebook is doing is what some french corporations were doing during ww2. It's called collaboration with a fascist state. ( and no, clearly it's not of the same scale, of course).

Let's not forget that those were cartoons making gentle fun of an IDEA. Just an idea, and nobody is forcing you to have a look at it. They're not making fun of people suffering, they're not trying to have people killed, or spreading hate and anger. First and foremost it's about learning to laugh a bit. But there's one way you can recognize fascists for sure, it's that they have no sense of humour.

Now, even more preoccupyingly, turkey is putting journalists in jail. But they also have a very strong tradition of modernity, and they have a strong army, traditionnaly not aligned with islamist. Which means they could still revolt and massively vote against the ruling party, if they have the chance.

What facebook is doing is saying that nothing outrageous is been done in the country. They're helping the government instead of calling him out.

Re:Facebook Said to Block Pages Critical of Muhammad to Avoi... by toyg on Tuesday January 27, 2015 @04:38AM (#8952157)
> Which means they could still revolt and massively vote against the ruling party

Yeah, keep telling yourself that, if it makes you feel better about it. The fact is that they did revolt, and they were massively repressed. It happened just before Ukraine blew up; and nobody in the US establishment cared one little bit.

Ataturk is long dead. The secular army and judiciary have been cut to size by de-facto dictator Erdoğan, who uses Islam in the way less-enlightened countries have done for decades now. The hard truth is that Turkey is now the new Saudi Arabia: a country NATO cannot live without, but ruled by people supporting interests and values very different from official "Western" ones.

The view here in Europe is that we've basically given up on Turkey as a secular partner, and they will never be allowed to join the EU while Erdogan is around; but NATO can't do without them, and that's a big problem.

Re:Facebook Said to Block Pages Critical of Muhammad to Avoi... by IndianAstronaut on Tuesday January 27, 2015 @05:36AM (#8952355)
>The view here in Europe is that we've basically given up on Turkey as a secular partner,

The EU long ago snubbed Turkey, well before the autocratic tendencies of Erdogan appeared. If the EU reached out then and put Turkey officialy on a path to membership, it may have helped turn the course. Erdogan saw that he got a better reception aligning towards the Muslim middle east than secular Europe.

Re:Facebook Said to Block Pages Critical of Muhammad to Avoi... by toyg on Tuesday January 27, 2015 @07:52AM (#8952761)
> The EU long ago snubbed Turkey, well before the autocratic tendencies of Erdogan appeared.

It takes two to tango. Subsequent Turkish governments basically refused to address the problems of both Cyprus and Kurdistan. Northern Cyprus in particular needs a real roadmap to normalization, you can't ask the EU to include "far west" territories. Everything else could have been sorted out one way or the other.

Re:Facebook Said to Block Pages Critical of Muhammad to Avoi... by bsaul on Tuesday January 27, 2015 @05:48AM (#8952385)
There you go again ( not you, personnaly)... People voting for or agreeing with radical islamism has unfortunately nothing to do with us, or richness, or education. It's an internal struggle inside the muslim world between secular and fundamentalism of the same kind we had in the 17th and 18th century.

If we had accepted turkey in europe, nothing says we wouldn't have ended up with the exact same situation, except without border control between us and them.

Re:Facebook Said to Block Pages Critical of Muhammad to Avoi... by mda on Tuesday January 27, 2015 @06:44AM (#8952544)
"The secular army and judiciary have been"

The true oppressors for many decades, good riddance.

"The hard truth is that Turkey is now the new Saudi Arabia"

Bollocks. Have you been to both countries? it is like day and night. Google the covers of "Penguen dergisi" or "Leman dergisi" or "Lombak dergisi", "uykusuz dergisi" some popular weekly caricature magazines in Turkey.

Current government had made many big mistakes, some unforgivable ones related to internet and freedoms but your comments are utter bs.

Re:Facebook Said to Block Pages Critical of Muhammad to Avoi... by toyg on Tuesday January 27, 2015 @08:07AM (#8952813)
> Bollocks. Have you been to both countries?

That's not the point. The point is that, from a NATO point of view, they are both necessary allies but also de-facto adversaries on many chessboards. It's not a secret that Turkey is helping IS in the Kurdish regions, for example; like it's not a secret that SA helps radical militias the US reportedly opposes. They simply have different long-term strategic objectives from NATO's, including a different view of the role of religion as instrument of power.

Re:Facebook Said to Block Pages Critical of Muhammad to Avoi... by mda on Tuesday January 27, 2015 @09:02AM (#8953015)
" It's not a secret that Turkey is helping IS in the Kurdish regions" No this is again BS. Why would Turkey has any benefit from a bunch of murderers? BTW SA is not a Nato member you just can not put Turkey and SA in the same bucket.
Re:Facebook Said to Block Pages Critical of Muhammad to Avoi... by toyg on Tuesday January 27, 2015 @10:41AM (#8953563)
> Why would Turkey has any benefit from a bunch of murderers?

Because they keep splitting Kurdish territory, weakening Kurdish positions that are instrumental if Kurds are ever to get full statehood -- which would would immediately result in claims over currently-Turkish territory as part of independent Kurdistan. Enemy of my enemy...

> BTW SA is not a Nato member

Not strictly-speaking, but in practice it's one of the staunchest US allies in the region, on par with Israel. The US built a lot of installations there in the last 20 years, then relinquished them to SA and proceeded to sell them Nato-grade weaponry. If shit started to fly with Putin tomorrow, Saudi Arabia would be on NATO's side, no question.

Re:Facebook Said to Block Pages Critical of Muhammad to Avoi... by olalonde on Tuesday January 27, 2015 @07:40AM (#8952727)
As someone who lives in a country with heavy censorship, I disagree with your opinion. I'd rather have a censored Facebook/Youtube/etc. than nothing at all. Thinking that you are helping Turkish people by denying them access to Facebook because it will "wake them up to what fascist regime they live in" is really a twisted line of thought. Also Turkey is a democracy, not a fascist state. The fact is that Erdogan is actually (relatively) popular in Turkey.
Re:Facebook Said to Block Pages Critical of Muhammad to Avoi... by bsaul on Tuesday January 27, 2015 @08:45AM (#8952934)
To me, Turkey is on the verge of becoming really scrwed. It's still possible for them to change their path. The situation is much much different than, let's say, China where the situation is far too deeply rooted.

All they need are wake-up calls, and having Facebook unavailable could have been one that would have helped realize their dear loved president is blocking a website for a damn cartoon (and putting journalists in jail as well).

Re:Facebook Said to Block Pages Critical of Muhammad to Avoi... by whatsgood on Tuesday January 27, 2015 @11:08AM (#8953789)
Since you live in a country with heavy censorship, I'll try to be sensitive to the fact that you and I have different cultural norms as relates to acceptable trade-offs between free speech and access to personal-communication networks.

In the United States also have popular, elected officials that from time to time choose to censor the citizens which put them in office. Neither the fact that we live in a democracy nor the current popularity of the elected official are popular reasons given as to why we should not protest the infringement of basic rights such as the right to free speech, the right to assemble, or the freedom of the press. The right to protest is granted by our constitution, the same constitution which determines our form of government and the grants the authority of the elected officials. Outside of elections, popularity is not a constitutional basis for authority. So that's the legal side of things.

How about the sociopolitical side of things? Well, stepping into your shoes, some foreign company coming into America and telling me what I can and can't say. Nope. Not gonna fly. Twisted or whatever, this is America, fuck yeah. There's gonna be a world governance organization? Fine, put it in Manhattan so we can keep it in line. We're gonna spy on our citizenry? Fine, but only because we must fight foreign terrorists. And, if we're gonna do it, we're gonna do it right, with contract employees. No boobs on the television, that's cool too; it keeps my super prudish mother-in-law comfortable while I still have easy access to the best porn in the world (uncensored Internet baby, because why, that's right: FREE EFFIN SPEECH). (disclosure: i actually take issue with the objectification and commoditization of bodies which serves as the foundation for the vast majority of pornography. but hey, you can't pick and choose when it comes to free speech.)

I know that at this point you're already convinced and are rushing out the door so that you and your friends can begin building your own pirate wireless mesh network with which you'll be open the flood gates to the world's miracles and evils. But let me give you a few more reasons to say: “Fuck censorship!”: David Lee Roth, Stanley Kubrick, Mark Twain, Hustler, Rambo, Deep Throat (Watergate), California, Malcom X, Will Ferrell. America. Fuck yeah.

And in the end, you just might even be able to speak your mind in public without being thrown in jail and denied due process. Ahhhhhhh, the little things.