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Re:How English beat German as the language of science by Htsthbjig on Monday October 13, 2014 @04:11PM (#8450353)
How about winning the two world wars and taking all the scientist worth their name out of Germany?

Remember that before WWII US of America was like China is today, a very powerful industrializing country, but with a lack of formal education.

American products were inferior to German-Austrian-Swizzerland ones, but they were able to manufacture at a massive rate that Germanic countries were not able to compete.

After winning WWII, half of the great German scientists went to USA(west Germany), the other half went to Russia(east Germany).

German scientist were the ones that directed the Space programs both in US and Russia and educated native scientists along with other European ones that traveled to US as their countries were devastated after the war.

Re:How English beat German as the language of science by binarymax on Monday October 13, 2014 @04:34PM (#8450497)
Reminds me of a "joke" that my Uncle told me once:

An aircraft controller was sitting in a tower in Berlin-Tegel, and hears a request for landing by a Lufthansa pilot speaking German. The controller asks the pilot to please repeat the request in English. The pilot asks, "Why must a German pilot of a German aircraft landing in a German airport make a request in English?". A British Airways pilot, listening in on the conversation, interrupts: "Because you lost the war".

Re:How English beat German as the language of science by mcherm on Tuesday October 14, 2014 @10:47AM (#8453625)
Whereas the REAL answer to the question is "So that the British Airways pilot, listening in, can understand the request and has an opportunity to realize that it might cross his flight path."

The use of English as a common worldwide air-traffic control language is widely considered a step forward in air safety.[citation needed] The safety comes from the consistency, not from any particular property of English.

Re:How English beat German as the language of science by commandar on Monday October 13, 2014 @04:37PM (#8450515)
>American products were inferior to German-Austrian-Swizzerland ones, but they were able to manufacture at a massive rate that Germanic countries were not able to compete.

I think that's somewhat of an oversimplification.

Yes, Germany couldn't compete with American industrial output, but a recurring theme with German weapon designs was a tendency to be very difficult to manufacture even if the industrial capacity was there.

They were often beautifully engineered, but relied on complex operating systems that required enough precision machining to seriously rate limit their already strained production capacity.

Re:How English beat German as the language of science by JoeAltmaier on Monday October 13, 2014 @04:43PM (#8450545)
Industrial output: at the WWI memorial in Kansas City, they state that for every car extant in the world at that time, there were 7 in the USA.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by NoMoreNicksLeft on Monday October 13, 2014 @05:33PM (#8450801)
Including the 7 in the US?
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by mjevans on Monday October 13, 2014 @06:19PM (#8450995)
Translating idiot: they implicitly meant 'in the rest of the world' instead of 'the world' (probably wrote it that way to begin with actually... and someone else probably 'made it shorter').
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by Nitramp on Monday October 13, 2014 @05:00PM (#8450636)
> American products were inferior to German-Austrian-Swizzerland ones, but they were able to manufacture at a massive rate that Germanic countries were not able to compete.

Keep in mind - WWII was won by Russia, not the US. Russia however did indeed out-produce Nazi Germany.

Re:How English beat German as the language of science by refurb on Monday October 13, 2014 @05:16PM (#8450725)
Keep in mind that Russia helped beat back the Germans due to the US lend-lease agreement. Without that, I would argue Russia would have had a hell of a harder time.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by dominotw on Monday October 13, 2014 @05:24PM (#8450770)
This has been done to death all over the internet but the general consensus seems to be the that Soviets would have had much harder time defeating the Nazi's without american help but would have eventually won the war regardless.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by refurb on Monday October 13, 2014 @06:23PM (#8451004)
Not to drag this on further, but it would depend on the role the US/UK played. If they remained neutral the entire time i don't know if Russia would have eventually won. Germany wasted a lot of energy defending the west coast of europe.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by leoc on Monday October 13, 2014 @05:51PM (#8450880)
Yes. The Soviets largely manufactured (and designed) their own combat vehicles, but everything from trucks on down came in vast quantities from the US. Meanwhile the mighty Wehrmacht was still mostly horse-drawn.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by orbifold on Monday October 13, 2014 @09:13PM (#8451448)
That was probably also because they did not really have a reliable source of fuel once the US gave up neutrality, beyond a synthetic one via coal, in fact I believe both the failure to capture the oil fields in Africa and beyond Stalingrad led to a faster defeat.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by rjsw on Monday October 13, 2014 @05:40PM (#8450833)
The Soviet Union still made a fair number of T34s all by themselves.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by dreamweapon on Monday October 13, 2014 @05:20PM (#8450747)
How about winning the two world wars and taking all the scientist worth their name out of Germany?

Umm, most scientists "worth their name" either fled, or opposed, or were killed (or like Hilbert, forced into silence) by the NS regime. Other than von Braun and Heisenberg, there just weren't that many titanic figures with influential positions, and who were genuinely (or even tacitly) pro-Nazi after 1940 or so (I'm not sure there were any, in fact).

Of course there were still university professors, and all those technicians working for von Braun's program, and so on -- but the point is that they weren't people of great influence in the international community.

So it is most likely the defection of top minds like Bohr and Einstein that led to Germany's continuing loss of dominance after WW II, rather than the number of lesser scientists who stayed behind to work on actual weapons projects.

Re:How English beat German as the language of science by tim333 on Monday October 13, 2014 @05:03PM (#8450658)
I think some people were embarrassed by German after WWII given that Germany's behaviour during WWII left something to be desired. My father and his parents emigrated from Germany, Anglicised their name and switched to English.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by ZenoArrow on Monday October 13, 2014 @04:27PM (#8450458)
"American products were inferior to German-Austrian-Swizzerland ones"

Got some examples? Cars are a given, but I couldn't think of any others where the difference was that pronounced.

Re:How English beat German as the language of science by WalterBright on Monday October 13, 2014 @04:33PM (#8450494)
Airplanes, aviation engines, jet engines, rockets
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by leoc on Monday October 13, 2014 @04:37PM (#8450514)
Optics too, I think. The superiority of German optics was a big deal in WWII, though I'm not certain how they compared specifically to US products.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by junto on Monday October 13, 2014 @05:32PM (#8450798)
Karl Zeiss is still a big name in optics: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Zeiss
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by leoc on Monday October 13, 2014 @06:05PM (#8450935)
Yes, and not just them: http://www.gtai.de/GTAI/Content/EN/Invest/_SharedDocs/Downlo... It's definitely still an area of strength for Germany.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by commandar on Tuesday October 14, 2014 @03:22AM (#8452308)
On the other hand, German bombing sights were vastly inferior to what was available to the Allies, leading Germany to adopt a dive-bombing doctrine that lead to vastly inferior heavy bombers.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by ZenoArrow on Monday October 13, 2014 @04:37PM (#8450516)
Are you talking about pre-WW2 or post-WW2?
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by WalterBright on Monday October 13, 2014 @05:35PM (#8450809)
pre-WW2
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by TTPrograms on Monday October 13, 2014 @05:01PM (#8450645)
I'm under the impression that a majority of the most prominent scientists were taken to USA post WWII: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by dreamweapon on Monday October 13, 2014 @05:27PM (#8450773)
OP recruited a lot of talented people, but (apart from von Braun) they certainly weren't Germany's "most prominent" scientists, by any stretch. A few Wikipedia-notables (largely due to their participation in OP), but hardly any household names, as it were.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by mmanfrin on Monday October 13, 2014 @04:32PM (#8450484)

  Remember that before WWII US of America was [...] with a lack of formal education.
Source? American scientists were the only ones staffed on the Manhattan Project. Germans were focused on rocketry, and their work contributed heavily to the space program, but to say the US science was nonexistent seems a bit of a stretch.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by Ma8ee on Monday October 13, 2014 @04:47PM (#8450577)
Americans like Niels Bohr, Enrico Fermi, Emilio Segre, Leó Szilárd, James Chadwick or James Franck?
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by orbifold on Monday October 13, 2014 @09:17PM (#8451459)
Most of the leading scientists of the Manhattan Project (e.g. Oppenheimer) had received some of their education at a european university or studied under someone who had.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by dubcanada on Monday October 13, 2014 @04:41PM (#8450529)
Science is not that cut and dry. It was German scientists who discovered nuclear fission.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by leoc on Monday October 13, 2014 @05:05PM (#8450666)
It's definitely an exaggeration to say this of the US in 1933 or '39. It might be pretty accurate to say of the US around 1870.
Re:How English beat German as the language of science by refurb on Monday October 13, 2014 @05:14PM (#8450719)
I would have to agree. I know it's only one segment of science, but look at the US pharmaceutical industry prior to WW2. The discovery and mass manufacture of penicillin is only one example.

I would argue that the German pharma industry at the time had a much longer lineage, but I would claim that the US had "a lack of formal education".