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Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by arfrank on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @12:25PM (#8427760)
CTO/Co-Founder of Final here.

Final is what we built to take back control of our own credit cards for how and when we’re charged, instead of leaving it up to merchants. That led to merchant-specific numbers and limits, managed automatically, as well as transparency in statements. It’s our stake in the ground, a way to shift the culture in credit towards consumer friendliness.

Happy to answer questions

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by Someone1234 on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:14PM (#8428035)
Do you actually know, for a fact, that you can generate arbitrary card numbers? Meaning have you got an agreement with visa, mastercard, or similar where they allow you to do that.

Is there a limit on how many customers/unique card numbers you can have, and is there an inherent cost in gaining a new number (e.g. will accounts be capped at X disposable numbers per Y period).

Once you delete a card number how quickly is it returned to the "pool?" And do you re-assign it to a new user requesting a number?

Do you think third party web-sites will break because a card number is used twice for two different users (e.g. user 1 and user 2 both have the same number on their accounts, because user 1 let it expire, and then user 2 received it and utilised it).

Are you worried that these numbers could be used for fraud or abuse (e.g. unlimited trials).

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by nayefc on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @03:22PM (#8428898)
They need a relationship with the issuing bank on top of Visa/MC. That is rather impossible. However, Visa/MC new TSP that was announced with Apple Pay really solves this problem. In essence, we all get this new feature for free just next year :)
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by izolate on Thursday October 09, 2014 @10:32AM (#8432554)
What does TSP stand for?
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by notJim on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @12:57PM (#8427934)
One of the problem w/ traditional credit cards is that my interests are not aligned with those of the card issuer. It's better for me to pay off my balance every month, but better for my bank if I don't so they can collect interest.

Will this be any different with Final? If so, how do you plan to make money?

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by bryanlarsen on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:08PM (#8427999)
Don't worry, the banks love it when you pay the account in full every month. They make more money from merchant fees than they do from interest payments.

Banks work hard to make sure credit card holders are happy. After all, it's fairly easy to switch credit cards.

It's the merchants that have the short end of the stick in the three way relationship between banks, customers and merchants.

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by uploading on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:21PM (#8428094)
Speaking of which, how will you be different from other small credit cards when it comes to merchant relations? If I go to "Jo Shmo's Taco Shop" am I still going to need a back up Visa card because that's all they are willing to take?
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by tehwebguy on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:49PM (#8428299)
Probably not, my guess is that this will actually be a Visa card.

Most Visa and MC cards are branded as such but are actually backed by some other institution, like Bank of America or Chase.

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by mcherm on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @02:39PM (#8428646)
Actually, ALL Visa and MasterCard cards are backed by some other institution. MasterCard and Visa are (well, were: it's more complicated lately) associations of banks.
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by andrewdietrich on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:14PM (#8428037)
We make money when our customers are happy. Yes, we still make money the traditional way - via transaction fees and interest on debt. But we make a lot more money if we have millions of happy customers - we can't win this market if we treat our customers like every other bank.

We're building this product for ourselves and for our friends first. And many of them are unhappy with how banks treat customers and optimize for fees and increasing debt.

We don't think encouraging conspicuous consumption is the only way to be a successful credit card company.

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by eevilspock on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @03:25PM (#8428922)
But you also make money from advertisers. From your privacy policy:

"you agree that we may provide any of the information we have collected from you in non-personally identifiable form to an Advertiser, in order for that Advertiser to select the appropriate audience for those advertisements and/or offers."

"Final is aligned with you"

No, not aligned with me at all.

Why can't we have a business model that is straight up, you know, where the ENTIRE relationship is between you and us, the end user, where your profit comes ENTIRELY by making us happy. The free-market works much better that way.

Advertising never makes anything free or cheaper. Quite the opposite: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8372640

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by otoburb on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @12:40PM (#8427849)
Will the physical card have a number embossed on it, similar to other cards? Or can the physical card number be changed in some way (e.g. Plastc's demo supposedly leveraging e-ink display on the card[1])?

Also, does Final aim to become a credit card payments processor similar to Visa, Mastercard, et. al., or will you be leveraging a banking/credit institution in the backend to start with?

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8422928

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by tkmcc on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @12:58PM (#8427946)
I was wondering about the number embossing as well. I could see it confusing or sketching out some cashiers, especially with all the recent news about credit card fraud. I like the e-ink idea that Plastc had and would be very attracted to this card if it had that just for ease of use.
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by Someone1234 on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:04PM (#8427971)
I've had situations (recently) where the card machine wasn't working so they manually tapped in the number on the front instead. Without the number and given the same situation I might be left without a working card.
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by otoburb on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:13PM (#8428029)
Agreed. In many retail locations they often type in the last 4 digits shown on the physical card even if it's not the entire card number, even when the PoS card scanner is working.
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by jessriedel on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @03:09PM (#8428831)
I have a credit card from capital one without embossing. The number and name is just written with ink, and the card surface is smooth. I've never had an issue using it.
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by tkmcc on Thursday October 09, 2014 @01:30AM (#8430954)
I've seen those, but this card (judging by the image on the landing page) doesn't have any visible number at all.
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by arfrank on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:29PM (#8428157)
Card design standards have been changing in the last year. We'll be issuing a card over the V/MC/Amex network, which requires the card to have a network logo on it. Exact branding is battle we know we will have to fight with the networks and our partner bank, but ultimately 100% acceptance at all merchants is our goal.
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by rtkwe on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:53PM (#8428319)
The eInk display is one of the reasons that Plastc probably won't work on a credit card size. If you browse through the comment you'll see more details but it boils down to the circuitry to drive an eInk display is thicker than the space available.
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by nlh on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:12PM (#8428018)
Looks very cool. Few questions off the top of my head:

1) I presume since you'll be an actual credit card, there's an issuing bank behind you somewhere. Are you an actual startup, or is this a "division" of some huge bank trying to appeal to the tech set? Can you talk about who your issuing bank is?

2) ApplePay?

Thanks! (I signed up.)

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by arfrank on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:53PM (#8428317)
1) An actual startup, currently graduating from the TS Boulder. Talking with a bunch of banks to see who can get this thing into consumers hands fastest.

2) We'll work with ApplePay 100% (currently its the only way to get to the NFC chip on the iPhone)

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by faet on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @02:01PM (#8428373)
Say hey to matt for me.

Why would I use this over something like ApplePay?

Do I need a "final card" for each of my credit cards? Or can I tie it into 1 final card (Mostly for online purchases). Or complete new credit card?

What do costs look like? Or if it's a new line of credit, do I get reward points/etc?

-JT

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by rtkwe on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @02:20PM (#8428507)
Apple Pay requires the vendor to have an NFC card terminal, which won't be universal for a long time if ever. This looks like it'd be usable with a normal credit card terminal.
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by Igglyboo on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @03:05PM (#8428801)
> Do I need a "final card" for each of my credit cards? Or can I tie it into 1 final card (Mostly for online purchases). Or complete new credit card?

Pretty sure this is a completely new card, as in, you apply for a final card then you cut up all your old ones and close those accounts.

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by qyv on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @02:19PM (#8428498)
How does multiple-number thing work when using the card physically (mag swipe, chip-pin or tap) on current CC processing terminals?
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by Aloha on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @12:53PM (#8427908)
Your signup link doesnt work with IE9, it just gives a page cannot be displayed error.
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by johng on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:00PM (#8427956)
For nerds, we know to enter our email address into the box... but I would add some text above it for the regular folk who just say "wtf do I type into this box"
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by arfrank on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @12:53PM (#8427911)
Thanks, looking into this right now.
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by ewoodrich on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:20PM (#8428083)
It also appears to have a typo:

Enter your emaill address for early access...

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by arfrank on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:34PM (#8428196)
Thanks, editing the live code repo of our marketing site to make the CTA clearer
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by arielpts on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:08PM (#8427994)
Hello.

Will Final actually partner with a financial institution to issue a card that I'll have to apply and have its own limits.

OR

I'll be able to use my own credit card, and Final is just a proxy?

Thank you!

Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by arfrank on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @01:30PM (#8428167)
We're partnering with a banking institution to issue a new line of credit to consumers.
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by dagurp on Thursday October 09, 2014 @03:39AM (#8431219)
Can people outside the USA get final? Your website doesn't say.
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by pmontra on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @02:07PM (#8428410)
Is it only for US residents? Do you have an Android app?
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by sawthat on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @02:17PM (#8428485)
Love this idea, however I don't use credit cards (or any other form of unsecured debt). Do you plan to offer a debit card?
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by newbeginnings9 on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @03:39PM (#8429006)
That's dumb, why wouldn't you use a credit card for recurring purchases and build credit for more spending power?
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by cdcarter on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @05:54PM (#8429671)
Will you be offering cards with any rewards program?
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by xexers on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @03:00PM (#8428764)
Will it work in Canada
Re:Final – A credit card built for the 21st century by antidaily on Wednesday October 08, 2014 @12:59PM (#8427952)
Ben Affleck as Batman... thoughts?