News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by ZeroGravitas on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @11:24AM (#800365)
Wikipedia is amazing.

I was going to write "For all its faults..." but I suddenly realised that Wikipedia has never been anything less than fantastic in anything I've experienced. All the bad stuff has been related to me 3rd hand and the vast majority of it seemed to be coming from cranks with axes to grind.

I'm saddened that it isn't celebrated more, but take solace in the fact that it has, fairly quietly considering, become a fundamental part of the internet and our society.

Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by biohacker42 on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @01:08PM (#800600)
cranks with axes to grind

Every wikipedia critic I know used to be a huge wikipedia fan until something they deeply cared about was either screwed up, vandalized, or deleted.

I bet one internet cookie that if/when this happens to you, you will be as passionately anti-wikipedia as you are now pro-wikipedia.

Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by skolor on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @01:15PM (#800622)
This seems odd: I don't know any person who is a directly anti-wikipedia, but I do know several people who are against wikipedia. They don't active talk bad about it, but they're the type of people who say "You can believe anything written on there, it was just written by people". Due to the ease of editing, they feel that it means nothing is fact-checked.

On the other hand, I know one of the administrators there, and he has shown me several pages of the hate-mongering he gets, mostly for just being an admin. Some of it has merit (for example, a good chunk of it was because of one particular article he moderated, and the side that lost did not lose gracefully), but most of it is just people jumping on him because they feel they are being denied their right to, well, write.

I rarely see any well thought out, cohesive arguments for re-structuring wikipedia. Most of what I see is little more than "I hate that admin, he said I wasn't notable enough for a page. Lets go egg his house!"

Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by asdlfj2sd33 on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @06:36PM (#801284)
I rarely see any well thought out, cohesive arguments for re-structuring wikipedia.

I see no reason for an internet encyclopedia to copy the shortcomings of a paper encyclopedia as closely as wikipedia does.

Paper and shelf space are expensive and limited, you have to limit the articles and the article size.

On the other hand, HD space is cheap and text small and easily greatly compressed.

Searching in paper is hard. Searching on a computer is easy. There's no reason to have one article be THE article. Articles could be write only, unmodifiable, and search-able by their contents, their ranking by the general public, their ranking by a group of experts, their ranking of any selected group, by the hash of their text, etc.

There could be some built in redundancy, like a short encyclopedia style article on top of an incredibly deep Ph.D level dissertation article.

In short, I find wikipedia cludgy and inexplicably mimicking the short comings of paper.

Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by catzaa on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @09:46PM (#801572)
> I rarely see any well thought out, cohesive arguments for re-structuring wikipedia.

Yes, there are a few (such as the examples to improve citizendium). The first would be to remove anonymity. If the editors are know it would improve quality and would help to bring in specialists from fields.

Currently WP is now a vehicle for anonymous slander. Lies simply get repeated. Things do not have to be true – it just have to be on another website.

Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by quant18 on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @08:48PM (#801498)
Coincidentally it's just past the three-year anniversary of the first attempt to delete the article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion...

Back then it could still be saved by tons of people saying WP:ILIKEIT. But if it wasn't for the fact that some 19th-century writer had the idea of compiling the exact same kind of list, the thing would probably be deleted under today's standards.

Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by cyunker on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @02:11PM (#800767)
I've gone the opposite route. At first, I was skeptical. But it has become an invaluable resource especially in areas not covered by traditional encyclopedias (e.g. popular culture).
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by teeja on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @09:54PM (#801586)
Very so. As a lifelong rock and film fan, it's WP schoolin' me alla time. Cuz, as Mark Twain put it: "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by yan on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @11:35AM (#800388)
I just wish more people realized this with donations to the Wikimedia foundation.
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by andrewparker on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @12:58PM (#800574)
I just wish Wikipedia would find a self-sustaining model that didn't rely on perpetual annual donations. I'm not proposing a for-profit company, but I am proposing finding a non-compromising way to make just enough revenue to keep it going sustainably while remaining neutral.

PS I donated to Wikimedia last year, so I'm willing to contribute until the project finds a more sustainable model.

Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by fallentimes on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @01:53PM (#800718)
I am proposing finding a non-compromising way to make just enough revenue to keep it going sustainably while remaining neutral.

Monetization, non-compromosing and neutral have trouble playing nice with each other.

Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by spydez on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @03:46PM (#800961)
I knew of one non-profit that lived off interest, basically. For every million dollars they raise, they can afford to hire one more worker or do X more things, based off the interest that money makes sitting in a bank.

It seems like a good way to go, if you can just raise the millions needed. Maybe some billionaire can set Wikipedia up with a trust fund...

Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by fallentimes on Thursday September 03, 2009 @12:15AM (#801761)
How do they deal with interest rate fluctuations?
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by ars on Thursday September 03, 2009 @03:07AM (#801946)
You buy long term (5-10 years) CD's.

You know your expenses pretty well, so it's easy to plan it that far ahead.

Or coupon bonds, which pay interest regularly with a fixed amount and on a fixed schedule (set at purchase time for as long as 30 years).

Slightly more risky since they are not FDIC insured, but if you hold to maturity you have zero risk due to market fluctuations, only a risk of the firm going bankrupt totally.

Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by ddemchuk on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @08:42PM (#801486)
That would be a pretty massive trust fund to pay for all of the server space + bandwidth they need in addition to their staff
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by ars on Thursday September 03, 2009 @03:07AM (#801944)
Google offered to host them for free, without ads.

They turned them down. I guess that's where the non-compromising comes in - despite google offering to be totally hands off, just free hosting.

Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by tptacek on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @06:01PM (#801213)
It works for NPR. Why not for WP?
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by jasongullickson on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @01:54PM (#800725)
"I'm not proposing a for-profit company, but I am proposing finding a non-compromising way to make just enough revenue to keep it going sustainably while remaining neutral."

If you're proposing, let's hear the proposal...

Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by brfox on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @04:11PM (#801011)
Clearly labeled sponsored links (text ads) at the bottom of a few heavily used pages.
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by JesseAldridge on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @04:53PM (#801094)
It's a public good and should therefore be funded by the government. Note that government funded does not mean government run.
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by mhansen on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @05:49PM (#801188)
Neutrality will suffer under that small conflict of interest
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by JesseAldridge on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @09:03PM (#801517)
Yes, just like neutrality has suffered for PBS.

http://www.pbs.org/roperpoll2009/

Oh, wait...

"PBS remains the network with the most trusted news and public affairs programs, with 43% trusting its programs a “great deal.” CNN came in second with 28% and FOX News third at 27%."

Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by teeja on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @09:50PM (#801581)
Wikipedia can never work, it's a socialist experiment.

;->

Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by lupin_sansei on Thursday September 03, 2009 @04:25AM (#802039)
It would only be socialist if the state ran it.
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by lionhearted on Thursday September 03, 2009 @05:41AM (#802113)
Quite right - that's one of the biggest mistakes people make thinking politically. Socialism and Communism aren't bad because they're ostensibly about sharing, cooperation, or being nice. They're bad because they're run by the government, who arrests or executes its citizens if they decline to participate in the government-run activity. If you've ever shared a refridgerator with multiple people pitching in to fill it with groceries, you've been part of a "commune" (lower case), which can be fine and great thing. It's when people aren't allowed to decline to participate in the commune without being arrested or shot that there's problems.
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by lupin_sansei on Friday September 04, 2009 @12:03AM (#804255)
Yes what makes socialism/communism authoritarian is that it's almost always non-voluntary (ie they make you join the collective or else).

Exceptions to this are Kubbitzes (sp?) and small voluntary communes, which have their own problems but at least you can leave them!

Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by derwiki on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @11:45AM (#800416)
What are the total operating costs of Wikipedia? Not to bring politics into this, but with all the stuff the government funds, these seems like a prime example for bailout money.
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by jibiki on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @12:45PM (#800542)
If the government funded Wikipedia, nobody would trust its neutrality.
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by kirubakaran on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @01:21PM (#800637)
They should get UNESCO to fund it.
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by mojonixon on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @05:53PM (#801196)
Because UNESCO isn't thoroughly politicized.
Re:List of Inventors Killed By Their Own Inventions by yread on Wednesday September 02, 2009 @01:48PM (#800709)
Yes it truly is! On par with the whole GNU movement maybe even better.

I found some amazing quotes (linked to from the article):

It is cited that the Burmese king Nanda Bayin, in 1599 "laughed to death when informed by a visiting Italian merchant that Venice was a free state without a king

London Beer Flood, 9 people were killed when 323,000 imperial gallons (1 468 000 L) of beer in the Meux and Company Brewery burst out of their vats and gushed into the streets.

incent Smith II, an employee at the Cocoa Services Inc. chocolate factory in Camden, New Jersey, was loading chunks of raw chocolate when he slipped and fell into a large melting tank filled with 120oF (50oC) chocolate, and was knocked out by one of the mixing paddles. Smith was trapped in the melting tank for 10 minutes before rescuers were able to extract him. He was declared dead a short time later.

Hmmm beer, laughter or chocolate?