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Re:Tor users are selected and monitored by the NSA as extrem... by javajosh on Thursday July 03, 2014 @10:17AM (#7983166)
>I'm not sure why people seem surprised by this.

Not to get too meta, but this 'lack of surprise' thing has become a too-common reaction. I mean, objectively, what's more important - that the NSA is labeling Tor users as extremists, or whether or not you found this new information 'surprising'? Apart from being a distasteful brag, I don't think the assumption is correct. I'd imagine most people's response to be 'anger' or 'depression' or 'concern', although of course it's impossible to know for sure.

But what I really object to, and why I hope people stop using this language, is that it asserts that our collective reaction (however it is characterized) is more important than the story itself. In a very subtle way, it refocuses the argument and lets the NSA off the hook, and indeed, blames us for our having silly, outdated ideas like that our government might value and even protect our right to anonymous speech, rather than criminalize it.

As for the rest, it's possibly true that ubiquity is the only way forward.

Re:Tor users are selected and monitored by the NSA as extrem... by ryanpardieck on Thursday July 03, 2014 @11:14AM (#7983545)
I strongly agree with this. Not only is the "why is anyone surprised" a cynical ploy at seeming "sophisticated," but it serves to make people feel foolish for their initial anger, distrust, fear, sense of betrayal etc. And they have very good reason to feel those things! But we look at them with blank, bored eyes and ask why they're surprised.

I mean, do we really expect anyone else to seriously care about this stuff, when we kind of subtly mock them for having initially cared at all?

"I'm not sure why anyone's surprised" is the nerd version of being too "cool" to ever care about something.

Re:Tor users are selected and monitored by the NSA as extrem... by canvia on Thursday July 03, 2014 @02:00PM (#7984636)
I haven't met anyone IRL that was not surprised by the extent of the revelations thus far. The prevalence of this "lack of surprise" opinion in online discussions (esp on reddit) seems disproportional to my personal observations, albeit in a rather limited sample size.
Re:Tor users are selected and monitored by the NSA as extrem... by dspillett on Thursday July 03, 2014 @12:05PM (#7983876)
>* Apart from being a distasteful brag*

I don;t intend to come over as bragging, but given what is widely know surprise is simply not a sensible reaction if you keep up with the relevant news.

Constantly being surprised by this sort of thing means people simply aren't learning from the recent past. People seem to go from surprised, to offended/angry/disgusted, to apathetic, to completely forgetting until next time, to being surprised again.

I'm not sure what the answer is unfortunately, aside from maybe "stay offended/angry/disgusted and nag and nag and nag and nag and nag until things change or you are arrested".

Re:Tor users are selected and monitored by the NSA as extrem... by pdkl95 on Thursday July 03, 2014 @04:35PM (#7985606)
"Better late than never" is a concept that badly needs to be used here. Even if someone IS horribly late in realizing something, scaring them away with dismissive language is just going to make the problem worse in the future.
Re:Tor users are selected and monitored by the NSA as extrem... by marktangotango on Thursday July 03, 2014 @11:13AM (#7983543)
>> our right to anonymous speech

You lost me here. Privacy, yes, anonymity? Where is that in the Constitution (assuming you're a USA-ian).

Re:Tor users are selected and monitored by the NSA as extrem... by ghkbrew on Thursday July 03, 2014 @11:43AM (#7983725)
The right to anonymous speech is can be considered (and is by many) an implication of first amendment rights to free speech. One way to look at it is that the requirement that a person be identified before being allowed to speak is itself a limitation on speech.

I'm too lazy to do my own citations, but the courts have repeatedly struck down bans on anonymous speech on these grounds.

Re:Tor users are selected and monitored by the NSA as extrem... by marktangotango on Saturday July 05, 2014 @04:27PM (#7992876)
Thanks for the clarification.
Re:Tor users are selected and monitored by the NSA as extrem... by pivnicek on Thursday July 03, 2014 @11:34AM (#7983683)
Right there in the 1st amendment.

Backed up by the supreme court in the right for group memberships not to be revealed.

You have the right to anonymously assemble and associate with a political group. I hope you don't lose it.