News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by whence on Monday June 23, 2014 @02:36PM (#7933606)
Here's a better idea: charge market rate for parking on the street, citywide. There's no reason that space should be given away for free.

Use the revenue to build some much needed trains.

Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by dsl on Monday June 23, 2014 @03:06PM (#7933831)
The problem is bigger than a market inefficiency.

San Francisco has been pushing a hard line anti-car agenda, while making no noticeable improvements to transit. MUNI is a disaster being held hostage by unions. Bending to environmentalists to not address legitimate need for parking. Inefficient responses to groups like Critical Mass that breed resentment against bikes. Refusal to address the vagrant problems resulting in crap covered sidewalks. etc.

Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by thrownaway2424 on Monday June 23, 2014 @05:11PM (#7934694)
This is a quite liberal interpretation of facts in evidence.

"a hard line anti-car agenda"

Seriously? The city has almost half a million parking spaces, nearly all of which are free of charge. There are no congestion charges.

"Inefficient responses to groups like Critical Mass that breed resentment against bikes"

As opposed to the Critical Mass that the car drivers stage every single day at 4:30pm? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAO20jJHNuI

Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by r00fus on Monday June 23, 2014 @03:41PM (#7934105)
While it's easy to demonize "environmentalists", it's pretty clear in the SF Bay Area that environmentalists and property owners are in collusion (or property owners are using the environmentalist label to limit supply).

Ultimately, the best way to root-cause a policy issue is to follow the money. Someone is making money from a lack of governance.

Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by dsl on Monday June 23, 2014 @04:28PM (#7934421)
It is not so much money as it is power. San Francisco has a reverse-Tea Party problem.

When all viable candidates for a position are already left of center, the only way to shine is to seem more-progressive and out liberal the other guy.

As evidenced by the problems on the right currently - the biggest danger is that as we keep creeping to the extreme left, the "far out nutjobs" are only a tiny step away and seem almost reasonable by comparison.

Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by pessimizer on Monday June 23, 2014 @04:36PM (#7934480)
The 'left' has vary little presence in current US government (including in San Francisco) on any level. 'Far-left nutjobs' in the modern context refers to anyone to the left of Nixon.
Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by jaynos on Monday June 23, 2014 @02:48PM (#7933694)
San Francisco is actually doing this on a trial basis: http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/san-francisco-cuts-cruising-...
Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by mathetic on Monday June 23, 2014 @02:56PM (#7933761)
Roads are public goods and more importantly they are built with tax money. They are also specifically built for cars to use and without a place to stop they are a bit meaningless in a city.

They might just change this and start charging but that's a pretty stupid idea. Free market is not an answer to everything.

Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by revelation on Monday June 23, 2014 @03:11PM (#7933868)
I don't get it. None of your points tell us why we would not charge for parking spots. But you seem to have realized that "cars.. are a bit meaningless in a city", that's the first step.

Right now, "free parking" is a tax on everyone actually living in the city. They pay more for living because prime space is given away for free to store heaps of steel on it. Moreover, building regulations require new projects to provide parking spots proportional to the number of units, even when many city dwellers no longer own a car. That drastically increases development costs in cities that are starved for housing.

Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by jeffdavis on Monday June 23, 2014 @03:29PM (#7934008)
"Free market is not an answer to everything."

The problem here is one of rationing. There are a limited number of spots; who gets them?

In the current situation, the spaces are free/subsidized, but you pay instead by driving in circles. That's a big waste of time and adds to traffic congestion. Maybe that's more "fair" in some sense, but that doesn't make it good.

The app in question does either nothing or very little to help ration. It allows people who really need to park, and have the money to pay for it, to be more certain that they will get a space, which I guess is something. But it creates so many bad incentives that it's making the problem worse, not better.

The city is in a better position to create market incentives, because they can charge for the entire duration that you're in the space, not just the moment you happen to park. That means people would have no reason to camp out in a space waiting for the price to go up, which means more spaces will be available for useful purposes. It saves time and congestion, but perhaps loses out on some definitions of "fairness".

Any other ideas?

Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by dllthomas on Monday June 23, 2014 @05:17PM (#7934743)
'Maybe that's more "fair" in some sense, but that doesn't make it good.'

I'm not even sure it's more "fair" - as you said, you're still paying. I suppose a part of the cost (time wasted) is sort of indexed by income...

Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by jacobolus on Monday June 23, 2014 @03:07PM (#7933838)
I recommend you read http://www.uctc.net/papers/351.pdf

Personally, I think we’d all be better off if American cities were friendlier to pedestrians, cyclists, and buses, and stopped catering so heavily to automobiles. Devoting huge amounts of space to free/cheap street parking is incredibly expensive and inefficient, compared to just about any other use.

Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by spinlock on Monday June 23, 2014 @03:52PM (#7934190)
> They are also specifically built for cars

Not to be too pedantic but ... the roads in SF were built long before the car was invented. Think about it, if SF were built _for_ cars, why would it be at the end of a peninsula so cars have to cross bridges to get to it? SF was built so that it was easy to access by sea from ships. Cars came much, much later and the issues with parking, etc... really stem from the city not being in a very good location vis a vis cars. I agree that roads are a public good but I think they should be used to provide the greatest economic benefit which, in my opinion, is not to get commuters into the city.

Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by smackfu on Monday June 23, 2014 @02:51PM (#7933724)
I parked at a spot in the Mission where the meter rate on the weekend was $6 an hour.
Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by drivingmenuts on Monday June 23, 2014 @02:57PM (#7933773)
Sounds like you're already neck-deep in "parking for the rich only".

I'd be seriously reconsidering plans to do anything where the parking was that expensive.

Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by smackfu on Monday June 23, 2014 @03:10PM (#7933859)
I agree. The main problem there was that the streets with retail businesses were surrounded by residential streets, and the residential streets were unmetered residential parking only. So there were literally not enough metered spots available.
Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by dublinben on Monday June 23, 2014 @03:22PM (#7933944)
I'm sure the intention of this scheme is to make you think twice before driving into the city. If you had arrived on foot, you wouldn't have cared how expensive the parking was.
Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by guelo on Monday June 23, 2014 @03:35PM (#7934058)
The intention of the scheme is to make scarce parking spaces available by pricing them at the market clearing price.
Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by joedrew on Monday June 23, 2014 @03:33PM (#7934043)
Honestly, in a city with good transit like SF, you shouldn't be driving to the places you want to go anyways.
Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by sukuriant on Monday June 23, 2014 @04:20PM (#7934362)
That ... doesn't seem that expensive to me, coming from someone that lives in Seattle. Then again, I tend to get the day rates, or the late-night rates, which, if memory serves me, are like $15 for the night, while only staying an hour or two for dinner.
Re:SF cracks down on ‘Monkey Parking’ mobile app by hamzaouazzanic on Monday June 23, 2014 @08:59PM (#7935682)
I am cofounder of Sweetch, this is exactly our vision. That's why we give you the possibility to donate your money to charities who have a local impact in SF