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Re:Eigenmorality by JackFr on Saturday June 21, 2014 @04:27PM (#7925982)
To each his own. I actually think its overly long, wordy, rambling, poorly conceived and short any novel or important ideas.
Re:Eigenmorality by sage_joch on Saturday June 21, 2014 @06:26PM (#7926232)
He is exploring how the Internet might be used to save civilization. What constitutes an "important idea" in your book?
Re:Eigenmorality by prestadige on Saturday June 21, 2014 @07:53PM (#7926401)
Every tyranny is predicated on saving civilization.

Also, every idea that actually helps civilisation is incubated in a tiny minority (perhaps in just one mind). Since that minority is engaged in creative work, it is almost certainly an out-group. Adopting the morality of the ruling class and building connections with it are the surest way to power. But these are a full-time job.

I think the idea of quantifying morality might be improved by basing it not on cooperation but simply upon communication, e.g. how well do you know the opinions of those you disagree with? Note that this is almost the opposite approach of the path to power.

Re:Eigenmorality by sage_joch on Saturday June 21, 2014 @08:50PM (#7926512)
I don't think "tyranny of the majority" applies here. The proposed system makes minority opinions more visible, if anything. There would even be an incentive to have a minority opinion, if you truly believed the majority was incorrect about something. In response to your last point: that sounds like an interesting modification: letting every bot see every other bot's (possibly evolving) code. But perhaps to avoid Skynet, bots should use the other bots' published APIs (which could opt to include a "getCode" method), and judge each other by their actions.
Re:Eigenmorality by cscurmudgeon on Saturday June 21, 2014 @05:00PM (#7926054)
Exactly. Imagine his anger if someone had written something amateurish about quantum computation or complexity without acknowledging any work done since the beginning of these fields. I seriously hope most of the article is in jest.

"Hey all, I have a new way of measuring how much resources computer programs take..."

If I remember correctly, he banned a professor from commenting on his blog over what seemed to be a routine academic debate.

Re:Eigenmorality by gone35 on Saturday June 21, 2014 @06:32PM (#7926249)
If I remember correctly, he banned a professor from commenting on his blog over what seemed to be a routine academic debate.

Not really: for the record, Scott "sentenced" John Sidles repeatedly to a 3-month ban (later "commuted" to two weeks) due to his increasingly derailing and nearly trollish behavior [1], but soon he "dismissed" it for "time served" [2].

[1] http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1478#comment-84734

[2] http://blog.computationalcomplexity.org/2013/09/tldr.html?sh...

Re:Eigenmorality by argc on Saturday June 21, 2014 @08:29PM (#7926477)
Perhaps you have studied morality simulations in the past, whereas I have not. It was written simply. (In my opinion the occasional wordiness was a stylistic choice to mimic casual conversation rather than a strictly rigorous academic paper.. fitting for a blog post.) I found it a though-provoking read, and I have no qualms if his ideas were not "novel". Digesting old ideas and writing about them is not a crime. If anything, it is beneficial to those who did not read the original work (like me). As you said... to each his own.
Re:Eigenmorality by cscurmudgeon on Saturday June 21, 2014 @08:48PM (#7926508)
That is the problem here. For anyone who has studied ethics and morality, this is hair-pullingly bad. It is not easy to communicate these ideas.

An analogy: Would you trust a physicist who does not communicate often, or a creationist who writes popular science essays?

Re:Eigenmorality by lifeformed on Saturday June 21, 2014 @11:03PM (#7926760)
Well, I never knew this field of study existed before, and now I'm interested in it. I'm not going to blindly trust everything in this article, but now I have some starting points on things to look up. The article mostly discussed the interesting, big picture ideas. That aroused my interest far more than if I just started on some technical math article.
Re:Eigenmorality by tripzilch on Sunday June 22, 2014 @03:09PM (#7928853)
You didn't know about the field of Ethics? It's (IMVHO) one of the most important fields in Philosophy, and (again, IMHO) with the most practical applications in real life.

Before you rush off to study it (which I highly recommend, for anyone who has the chance / ability), it's not so much about learning better systems of ethics or learning about the many types of systems of ethics that have been thought up in the past, but it's about learning the arguments why they are/were wrong and how they break down in situations, and to carry these arguments. That's how a lot of fields in Philosophy work, and why it seems such a dry study of "arguing for argument's sake". The point is, by doing this, practice, you learn a lot of useful things along the way and sharpen your mind.

I do agree with the other poster that the featured article (while interesting to read), does seem to lack a bit in how it connects with actual philosophy of ethics.

Re:Eigenmorality by lifeformed on Tuesday June 24, 2014 @09:36PM (#7941784)
I didn't know about morality simulations.
Re:Eigenmorality by MiaoYu_Goh on Sunday June 22, 2014 @06:27AM (#7927455)
Are there any resources you would recommend to the uninitiated? I am willing to put in the effort needed to understand even very technical texts. Thank you.
Re:Eigenmorality by jng on Saturday June 21, 2014 @04:36PM (#7926002)
Please tell us what sources you follow that provide you with (a) comparably lucid ideas and (b) not only that, but also in a shorter, clearer form.

I for one want to follow them too if they really exist.

Re:Eigenmorality by soganess on Saturday June 21, 2014 @04:53PM (#7926029)
One does not solely get their understanding of novelty or content/length relation from single newsfeed style sources. There are more than a few books and even more wikipedia entries that provide a wealth of understanding for a relative pittance in word count. Not to mention all the non-classical forms that do the same. The article was okay, but the standard you implicitly set forth is lacking in fairness to the commenter, to the original story, and truly to one-off forms of valuable information that don't provide a serialized source of continued information.

One of my personal favorites: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry%E2%80%93Howard_correspond...

Re:Eigenmorality by jng on Saturday June 21, 2014 @05:39PM (#7926143)
Books and Wikipedia articles are sources too. I didn't say anything about single newsfeed style sources.

I find the linked-to article to be a gem of lucidity amidst a barrage of mostly noise, busywork, and lottery-playing. Not only that, but the topic of the foundations of morality is going to become a central issue soon, with multiple strong global trends taking us towards that difficult issue.

The article you linked to is nice, but Curry-Howard isomorphism is neither novel nor as important as the topic covered by the original article.

As fragile agents inhabiting a ball of mass and fire organized in billions of partly-autonomous somewhat-intelligent resource-sharing systems flying through space and time, just recently coming up with scarily and growingly powerful new ways to rearrange control which may destroy existing controlling systems, including us, we should care very, very much about this.

And the article provides powerful new tools to tackle this.

Re:Eigenmorality by JackFr on Monday June 23, 2014 @09:14AM (#7931720)
"foundations of morality is going to become a central issue soon" -- for many people it has been the central issue for three thousand years.

For anyone who has studied philosophy or ethics -- even casually -- this article was terribly naive and hopelessly unaware of its own ignorance. Beyond that, the applied linear algebra was not interesting, no real game or decision theory to speak of and the whole 'eigenmoses' and 'eigenjesus' was too cute by half.

Iterated prisoner's dilemma? Not my idea of a powerful tool.

Was there more? I may have missed it.

Re:Eigenmorality by dogecoinbase on Saturday June 21, 2014 @07:00PM (#7926306)
"Follow" is not a verb used in the context of books or Wikipedia articles. Any neither characteristically provides ideas in a "shorter, clearer form". Your request was, to any reasonable observer, explicitly a request for a content-driven site or blog (i.e., a "single newsfeed style source"). Denying it when it's so clearly a falsehood only undermines the rest of your assertions, and casts into doubt your commitment to the (accurate) assertion that we should care about methods of disrupting existing controlling systems... perhaps to the point where it would not be unreasonable to conclude that you're explicitly attempting to undermine good-faith attempts to produce new stable systems.

So who are you working for?

Re:Eigenmorality by mentat on Sunday June 22, 2014 @12:48AM (#7926927)
"Follow" is used in the context of authors of classical works in academia and has been used prior to any use in the forms you claim are its exclusive domain.
Re:Eigenmorality by jng on Saturday June 21, 2014 @07:33PM (#7926366)
Just myself.

EDIT: The answer to the rest is not generally interesting.

Re:Eigenmorality by yid on Saturday June 21, 2014 @05:38PM (#7926138)
> I actually think its overly long, wordy, rambling, poorly conceived and short any novel or important ideas.

Yes, it's written like the draft of an academic research paper that might or might not make it to peer review. Unfortunately, that description also matches the bulk of published papers.